The danger of religion. .

[Cyberman]

Stimbo.. yes sometimes, especially studies where there have been two groups where one was prayed over to achieve a specific result it is barely indistinguishable from blind chance. Sometimes the one looking at it wants to be skeptical and nothing will suffice.

Actually it's worse than that. A well-known study by the John Templeton Foundation some years ago into the effects of prayer in heart surgery recovery returned that not only do prayers have no positive effect, patients who knew they were being prayed for actually fared worse than their fellows.

I will go ahead and say right now, no matter how much anybody prays, ozzy the dog will not ever turn into a naked chick. thats just not how it works.

Precisely. It's something unambiguous, that is can only have one result if prayer is meant to work as promised many times in that big book of multiple choice, the bible. Of course, there is always the old escape-hatch of "sometimes the answer's no" but apart from that being a blatant volte face from the biblical text, it also raises interesting questions about the god's honesty. So how do we recognise an 'answered' prayer from chance? I pray for money, and next week I find a fiver out in the street, is that an aswered prayer? In other words, did my praying cause me to find the money, or would I have found it anyway? There's no way to know unless we remove the ambiguity. When we do that, when we pray for a result that can only have one interpretation if prayer is supposed to work, prayer never works.

There may be something to be said for the whole praying-to-find-car-keys thing, when someone finds some item after offering up a prayer for its return. Mainly that the act of praying in such a situation may focus the mind on the problem and jog the memory. In this case, the actual ritual is irrelevant; taking five minutes to stand and think is all it takes.

ozzy osbourne did dress up like a chick and piss on the alamo is that good enough?

As delightfully absurd as the image is, it's so very wrong on many, many levels in this context. Even I'm more vanilla than that. Besides, he's a Brummie.

And as far as going up to a doctor and telling him the experiance he has gained as a result of years of training and dedication were for nothing.. of course I wouldnt do that. Im not a disrespectful person. He aquired his skills because of hard work and many many hours of study. Then why do i say its a gift from God then? Because larry the bum down on 5th street couldnt be a doctor if he tried. why not? because he isnt "gifted" in that way. larry the bum however, is here for a reason and has his own "gifts" Peace.

Or it could be that Larry the bum hasn't had the hard work and many hours (actually years) of study that you conceded two sentences before he came in are necessary to acquire the skills to be a doctor. Look, I like you and I enjoy these little discourses, but I get travel sick when someone switches gears without warning.