RE: God, come out, come out wherever you are!
May 3, 2012 at 6:17 pm
(This post was last modified: May 3, 2012 at 6:19 pm by DeeTee.)
New poster here and taking a stab at the Op. I am sure this may have been mentioned before but I do not have the time to read through 21 pages of comments.
I just want to address a couple of points made in the Op and another post:
#1.
Though this is part of the issue, it is only a part. One can still freely reject God's message of salvation even if God revealed Himself physically
God won't though as He told Moses that if Moses viewed God's real form He would surely die. That statement holds true today and applies to all humans. If God did reveal Himself physically, no one would have a chance to believe in Him because they would be dead.
#2.
God has shown Himself to all people. The Bible tells us that the heavens declare God glory. it also declares His power, His creativity, His concern, His abilities etc. In all of the created world we see a bit of God.
It is NOT God's fault that humans listen to evil and apply what they see to false theories and ideas.
#3.
No, people go to hell because they have rejected Jesus as their Saviour NOT because they do not have enough information.
#4.
But that isn't the only person in the world and God knows that others will hear the same message and will convert thus the missionary is needed to bring the message to others.
#5.
But it would violate God's rule about faith. The Bible tells us that 'by grace through faith are ye saved.' Read Hebrews 11 as well. Faith is the key to the whole equation which is why so many scientists and others have a hard time with the gospel message as they place physical evidence in faith's place and that is not scriptural or correct.
God did not say to use physical evidence. Yes we will get some of that in order to shore up a believer's faith BUT not so much tat it won't destroy God's requirement. People acting on faith please God and God is not going to destroy what pleases Him.
#6.
But God has shown Himself in the same way to everyone. DO you think believers are born that way? No, they come to the knolwedge of Jesus and salvation through the very same witness as everyone else receives.
It is AFTER they come to be followers of Him that they learn more about God and grow deeper in the faith. You can't get more information about God until you believe.
Everyone sees the same evidence, hears the same message and has the same rules to follow and the key is that some follow the rules and use faith while others do not.
I thought there was a subsequent point to address in another post but I may have already covered it in this list.
I just want to address a couple of points made in the Op and another post:
#1.
Quote:Free will, blah blah blah. Supposedly if he shows himself, we can't believe in him freely.
Though this is part of the issue, it is only a part. One can still freely reject God's message of salvation even if God revealed Himself physically
God won't though as He told Moses that if Moses viewed God's real form He would surely die. That statement holds true today and applies to all humans. If God did reveal Himself physically, no one would have a chance to believe in Him because they would be dead.
#2.
Quote: why doesn't he just show himself continuously to everyone
God has shown Himself to all people. The Bible tells us that the heavens declare God glory. it also declares His power, His creativity, His concern, His abilities etc. In all of the created world we see a bit of God.
It is NOT God's fault that humans listen to evil and apply what they see to false theories and ideas.
#3.
Quote: It seems to me then that really the only reason in your view that a person goes to hell is because of a lack of information
No, people go to hell because they have rejected Jesus as their Saviour NOT because they do not have enough information.
#4.
Quote:God already knew that this free person would freely reject the gospel anyway so there was no point in sending missionaries his way.
But that isn't the only person in the world and God knows that others will hear the same message and will convert thus the missionary is needed to bring the message to others.
#5.
Quote:his appearances don't violate free will.
But it would violate God's rule about faith. The Bible tells us that 'by grace through faith are ye saved.' Read Hebrews 11 as well. Faith is the key to the whole equation which is why so many scientists and others have a hard time with the gospel message as they place physical evidence in faith's place and that is not scriptural or correct.
God did not say to use physical evidence. Yes we will get some of that in order to shore up a believer's faith BUT not so much tat it won't destroy God's requirement. People acting on faith please God and God is not going to destroy what pleases Him.
#6.
Quote:then it's unfair that God doesn't show himself in the same way to everyone.
But God has shown Himself in the same way to everyone. DO you think believers are born that way? No, they come to the knolwedge of Jesus and salvation through the very same witness as everyone else receives.
It is AFTER they come to be followers of Him that they learn more about God and grow deeper in the faith. You can't get more information about God until you believe.
Everyone sees the same evidence, hears the same message and has the same rules to follow and the key is that some follow the rules and use faith while others do not.
I thought there was a subsequent point to address in another post but I may have already covered it in this list.
