Banning the Burqa?

[Tiberius]

It was an example of a poor choice people make. That seems pretty obvious to me. I also wasn't using that example to support my main argument. I was using it to show a flaw in one of your shitty arguments. There's quite a difference there.

It doesn't matter if you were using it to support your main argument or not, the fact that you used the word "also" makes it a comparison, since there was nothing but my statement for the word "also" to refer to. It didn't show a flaw in my argument either. You held that the burqa is a tool of oppression; I pointed out (rightly) that it was also used as a piece of clothing, chosen by women to wear. Things should not be banned just because a group of people use them in a particular way, otherwise we should ban all cars since some people drive them whilst drunk and kill people.

Note: bolded for emphasis.

What value exactly is being taken away? The only reasons these customs have value to you in the first place is that give it to them illogically and irrationally. They should start at a base point of having NO VALUE. You should examine each belief on own merits before deciding whether or not a custom has value. You fail to do so. That's fine, but be aware that accepting things for no logical reason and with no arguments puts you in the same boat as theists.

They can start out with no value if you want, or they can all start out with the same value (both ways they are treated equally). My belief is that we all have certain rights; one of which is the right to treat our bodies how we like, and hold customs that we like, provided they don't violate the rights of others. Banning the burqa reduces this right, and for no good reason. To go along with your method of assigning all customs with 0 value, when evaluating a custom, we must consider whether it inherently violates the rights of others. I contend that the simple act of wearing a burqa is not violating anyone's rights; moreover, it is the enforcement of the burqa that does, which is a different subject entirely. Therefore, we must give the custom of burqa wearing (that is, the act of wearing a burqa by choice) an equal value to that of wearing a t-shirt.

Seriously, fuck your claims of quote mining and straw manning. I posted literally the entire parts of your posts dealing with this issue. One was the ENTIRE post. There is no context that was missed. There is no straw man to be manufactured. You made an illogical, irrational statement and I called you on it. Your exact belief, as you stated it, is what I responded to.

No, my exact belief is not what you responded to. Let me clarify my quote mining; you posted my full quote, this is true. However, you then proceeded to simply lift a set of words out of that quote and hold them as my entire argument, completely ignoring the context which came before them. This is the quote mine I am talking about, and the strawman as well.

Here's your entire post again, in the context of this thread (I cut NOTHING out):

Yes, when needed then of course face coverings should be removed, but customs and religions should be respected.

Again, bolded for emphasis.

That is my point! You bold a section of my quote, and take it as my whole argument. You ignore the context that comes before it. That is a quote mine. It's a very silly quote mine, since anyone can spot you making it, but it is still a quote mine since you are simply lifting a partial quote of what I say, changing the context from something specific (applying to face coverings) to something generic.

That is illogical. That is irrational.

Actually you're wrong no this point as well, since the phrase "customs and religions should be respected" is not an argument nor is it even a claim, it's merely an opinion. As such, it cannot possible be illogical on its own. This really is basic logic. You think I need reading comprehension 101? You need logic 101. Please, if you think I'm wrong, point out the logical fallacy in the statement "customs and religions should be respected". Do not reference anything but the words used in that phrase, because your claim is that those words are illogical and irrational, nothing more.

You are on the same footing as theists with your utter lack of a requirement for arguments to support positions.

Now we're getting somewhere; you understand that arguments are needed to support positions, well done. However, I've spent this entire thread outlining my arguments. You cannot simply ignore them and then claim that my conclusion is illogical (not that "customs and religions should be respected" is even my conclusion in the first place).

You promoted blind acceptance of customs.

No, your strawman of my position did this.

As I said repeatedly, no context makes blind acceptance of customs logical or rational.

I gave you the context! Jebus.

You said the words between those quotation marks, right? I never said you said them alone. I said that they are illogical and irrational. No context makes that stop being true. Those words, which you wrote, promote blind respect toward customs and religions. You can twist and twist as much as you want and you will never change that.

No, those words do not promote blind respect towards customs and religions. I made sure I put them in the right context, and I even mentioned exceptions.

Please put that bit I responded to, the bit in quotes, into its full context for me so that it makes logical, rational sense.

My entire quote was "Yes, when needed then of course face coverings should be removed, but customs and religions should be respected.". This was in addition to my arguments about why the burqa should not be banned, and in addition to my stipulation that there were exceptions. Please, if you think my arguments are illogical or irrational, point out where they are. By that, I mean you should show me the logical fallacies I am using, preferably in some logical form. Note, the phrase "but customs and religions should be respected" is not an argument on its own; it is simply an addendum to my argument about why the burqa should be allowed.