(July 4, 2012 at 6:40 pm)Rayaan Wrote: *steps in shyly*
Well, I don't think that there is any solid and undeniable evidence for the existence of God.
You're damn right there.
Quote: However, I do believe that there are possible clues (or signs) of His existence.
Oh really? Let's hear it then!
Quote: And some of those clues are present in things that we see every day such as the variety of living things
How?
Quote:the plants
How?
Quote:the foods that we eat
How?
Quote: the water that we drink
How?
Quote:sex
Fair does, I shout "God!" when I'm cumming,possible tenuous link to evidence of god right there - or maybe not.
Quote: reproduction
How?
Quote: our brains
How?
Quote: our hearts
How?
Quote: emotions
How?
Quote:intelligence
How?
Quote: consciousness
How?
Quote: the earth
How?
Quote:and many other things.
Like what?
Oh, and how?
Quote: To me, all of these things are clues for the existence of God, or the existence of something intelligent operating in the universe, whether it is a person, a program, a field of consciousness, or whatever it is. In other words, I believe that there is a mind behind all of this and not simply a result of blind and accidental forces because that seems very unlikely to me although still possible.
Evolution explains a lot of this and it IS evidence based, and evolution isn't all about "accidents" either, but adaptation.
Quote:I don't actually know what is Allah (or God). As Muslims, we only claim to know Allah's secondary attributes (which are mentioned in the Quran), but we do not know Allah's primary attribute as the Quran says, "No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things" (6:103). And He doesn't show Himself to us directly, but we believe that He manifests Himself in other ways, i.e. through the Prophets, the scriptures, and through His creations.
Just a load of made up gobbledegook to me, mate. And I always find the "he is above all comprehension" to be...convenient.
It's like carte blanche to say "if you don't understand it, it's god"
Quote:If God revealed Himself, then there wouldn't be any value or reward in believing in Him because He already showed Himself. It would be kind of like giving away the answer.
Children do better logic than this.
Instead of claiming that if he revealed himself it would fuck everything up because then you wouldn't need to believe in him (did you really say that Rayaan?), why not just contemplate that knowledge is better than belief?
Certainly knowing god (or anything) is real > believing it.
Quote:I don't think that it's possible to prove God through logical arguments either. Why? Because to do that we have to know certain things and/or qualities of God which are not possible to know, and therefore, we can't be too sure if all the premises are true or not. We have to understand God's essential nature (or His primary attribute) before we attempt to form any ontological proofs, but that is not possible since God is something/someone beyond our comprehension.
But then the question is, what are the reasons for me thinking that this specific god and this specific religion is most likely to be true out of all the other ones?
I've made a much longer post where I answered that question and I put down more of my ideas in the thread below:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-11855.html
So, we don't know any of gods attributes for sure, and don't know if we're working from a true premise because of that, and thus we believe?
Erm, no.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
