Expelled

[Daystar]

There are indeed many Christians who would disagree, but hey, if thats what you believe I'm fine with that, its your standard after all.

Most of Christendom disagrees with most of what I believe because of the removal of pagan influence necessary for my interpretation of scripture and knowledge of Christian history.

Why would something that has merit to you not have merit to others?

On an Atheist board you ask me this? The Bible, which is the word of Jehovah God and the supposed basis for Christianity, has very little merit to the Atheist and not much more to the pagan influenced Xian.

Okay I with you so far, so what does it tell you about the creation and the creator? What IS going on according to your interpretation?

Briefly - we were created to live forever on paradise earth in perfection, without sickness, ageing, natural disaster, destruction or death - but we rejected Jehovah God's guidance and protection. Sin. There was a question raised before mankind and spirit creatures by Satan's deception. Can mankind enjoy creation without the Creator's protection? So far it isn't looking good. Sin equals death, Jesus took away sin. When man has all but destroyed the planet and himself Jehovah will step in and say time is up. Those who wish to follow the rules will live forever and those who don't will have everlasting destruction. Those who have died without having the opportunity for an informed position will be resurrected and given that opportunity. Satan, death, sin will be destroyed.

Sure, but of you imply that I think it would be immoral that a guy sticks his penis in a watermelon or a girl gets off on a cucumber your wrong, I'm fine with that, whatever floats their boat.

When it comes to animals I do have a problem with that and that is not so much the act, as the fact that there is no consent from both sides. And if there is, it is not verifiable. Furthermore there is the risk of the animal getting hurt in the process. Morality about the act doesn't come into question to me here.

Well - immorality isn't really the issue, I'm just pointing out that there are moral variations through the stream of time. Morality depends upon the time and place you are in, as well as the individual perception. Morality isn't the issue as such.

Again you assume that I perceive something like this as immoral. As a matter of fact I don't object on grounds of morality as opposed to grounds of health. 16 is okay in my book, but sex and pregnancy at 14 carries the heightened risk of health issues. Specially in those days.

I thank you not to presume what I hold as moral or not. When in doubt, ask me. If anything I am very upfront about these things.

I apologize. It wasn't my intention to presume to know your moral position; I was stating observations generally. Most militant skeptics think of the Christian as being a moral police for the globe, which isn't entirely without reason. It was my intention to compare the morality of them, as well as the average atheist as both being two sides of the same coin. Morality is subjective.

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I haven't seen the film but I've heard of the name. Whats it about? I think I've heard its pro-religion, is it?
So is it like the opposite to the critically acclaimed film 'The God Who Wasn't There' or something? I'll check wikipedia sometime for a bit of info and check the website. But what do YOU think expelled is about?

The documentary style of the film leaves a great deal to be desired, and wafts off into areas that were not very well thought out or warranted, but it did present the science perspective rather than the religious.

To me it was about religious warring. A demonstration of how the 'science' minded are trying to squeeze out any opposition or questioning of the theory of evolution. It was actually documenting several respected scientist who had been Expelled for simply daring to mention ID in an open minded way.

To me it was a confirmation of the zealous, religious, xenophobic nature of theoretical 'science.' Desperation.

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It does imply choice because it ignores the fact that it is has been proven to be a genetic trait and nothing to do with social behaviour.

Oh, has it, now? Explain the logic underlieng that conclusion, please. Do you have a link to that study?

Straight people raise gay children just as gay children raise straight children.

Of course! I never stated the case otherwise. My parents were straight.

Saying it's a learned behaviour feeds into the idiotic reasoning that Christian's give for Gays not to have civil rights and to not be able to adopt.

You will hopefully learn not to lump me in with the idiotic Xians. True Christians are, like Jesus, no part of the world rather than the phony moral police to the world. I would take no political position on anything, not even homosexuality and abortion. As far as I am concerned you should be able to adopt and have civil rights. Though I wouldn't take part in a holy union between same sex I wouldn't interfere nor politicize their rights for a union of some kind. Legal for example.

I take huge offense to your understanding of homosexuality because it's wrong. It's not opinion. Homosexuality is genetic as your hair colour. You don't learn to have brown hair.

I don't really give a shit that you take offense at that and I don't agree with it being genetic but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about it.

As for slavery, The Bible not only supports slavery, it tells you how to drive a spike through their ear to mark them. That's not humane. Also Jesus advocates slavery as well, so don't try and say the NT fixes that.

[sigh] ... never get tired of this ignorant argument. The piercing of the ear of which you speak was a willful choice made by the slave who had made up their mind to stay with the slave holder after the period of time was up that the slave holder could hold the slave. The Law of Moses demanded that a slave be set free with pay after a certain period of time. The capture of another human being as a slave was punishable by death with the exception of prisoners of war. If one had debt one couldn't pay off or had been arrested for stealing property they could be made into slaves. There were laws regarding slavery to protect the slaves from harsh treatment.

Joseph was a slave, you know - and the richest man, second in power only to Pharaoh.

My advice to you? Educate yourself and get rid of the emotional attachment you have to your religious upbringing.

When the US fought the civil war slave owners used the bible as defense for their right to own slaves but it was the secular morality that brought slavery to an end in this country.

Yes, and the church used the Bible to say the Earth was the center of the universe even though the Bible never said such a thing. Atheist use the Bible to say that the Bible itself said the Earth is flat when the Bible actually said it was spherical long before science said it. Charles Manson used the Bible to convince his followers that the Beatles were foretold in Revelation as the sign of the beginning of the racial war he tried to start.

Do you know what prevents the abuse of the Bible. Education of what it really says. There are only two ways to interpret the Bible. Right and wrong.

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I haven't seen the film but I've heard of the name. Whats it about? I think I've heard its pro-religion, is it?
So is it like the opposite to the critically acclaimed film 'The God Who Wasn't There' or something? I'll check wikipedia sometime for a bit of info and check the website. But what do YOU think expelled is about?

I haven't seen it yet but both I've heard about it from atheist shows. It essentially attempts to promote creationism as a valid scientific theory but what it actually does is say evolution leads to atheism, which leads to Nazism, which leads to the holocaust.

I've actually recently downloaded the film to see how bad it is but have not had time to watch it. I wouldn't pay money for it.

Watch it for a more accurate criticism. They do go off into directions like patriotism and Nazism that are as dumb as some of the movie and animation clips, but it really doesn't promote creationism as much as it does point out the xenophobic attitude of 'science.'

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Please do watch it, I thought it was so bad it almost became funny again. There is a very nice 3D animation in there though.

That was a real nice animation ... among so many bad ones. I can't wait until Religulous (Spelling?) comes out on DVD. Have you seen the theatre release?

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... Like George Carlin said and I paraphrase 'some people you'll be talking to them and after about a minute you'll think "this guy is f*cking STUPID!", and then there's these other people who after about a minute you'll think "Well he's fairly intelligent...
Ah, he's full of shit!!"[.....]'

Carlin was accurate in his usual observations of human nature until it came to God and the Bible and then he himself was full of shit. Catholic that didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground would be my guess. Couldn't even define what the simple word god meant according to the Bible.

Religion is bullshit, but the Bible ... now that is entirely different.