(July 12, 2012 at 12:00 pm)Ziploc Surprise Wrote:(July 12, 2012 at 11:01 am)Brian37 Wrote: If not all slavery is bad, please provide me ONE example, back then or now, where any human would say to themselves "I'd love to be owned and abused by another human".
Careful there, your asking for another sermon about how we should be slaves to god (the "by another human" part will be conveniently left out").
As for the slaves to god thing; is it pointless to point out that this is always translated (in practice) as being at some level of slaves to a pastor? If you surrender your will to god who are you in practice surrendering your will to. It's the one who tells you what god's will is. Yeah, yeah, the pastor will always say that you must seek this yourself but it is always in practice manipulated by the one's who will benefit (the pastor). Hence the reason why this is one of the more important doctrines in Christianity.
I am aware of the motif of "submission" as being a virtue, Islam has that too, so what?
What I am trying to do, not so much for this particular believer, but for the readers in general, through this discussion, is to treat it like a movie or book review, instead of a personal belief.
Would one, for example, value a Superman movie in which Superman would only help you if worshiped him like a god, "Pay me first, then I will stop that bullet from the robber".
Even without the slavery issue, say Superman was in an ally watching a women get raped and her throat slit, and Superman only did something AFTER the woman was dead?
And what if Superman after saving you threatened to beat the shit out of you if you didn't thank him and simply walked away?
The bible is insidious because the "submission" is not one of consent even though modern believers falsely try to paint it as such. The same mentality, minus the secular leash on Christianity, is also found in Islam.
There is absolutely no "free will" in the bible, anymore than you'd have a choice if an abusive spouse gave his wife two choices, "Stay and I wont hurt you, leave and I will beat the shit out of you".
"Choices" do exist in reality, but there is no morality in a threat/bribe motif. Only the ability of equal consent and the ability to walk away without harm, is moral.
Our real choices in the west are not a god based motif. In reality WE consent to the laws WE consent to, and absolute power is banned under civil governments that value pluralism and decent. and WE share power. So god as a claim, once you say he is the final authority, he is not a president who can be impeached, or has term limits, like we do in real life. The god claim AS A CLAIM fits the very definition of a dictator.
If I quit my job in real life, my boss cannot hunt me down torture me for leaving. And if I see him break the law himself, he can be arrested. The same cannot be said for the god/s of Abraham AS CLAIMS, as characters. As motifs they are sick.
