The Stage is Yours.

[Reforged]

Materialist? What? Because I'm someone who uses his senses as opposed to his imagination when discerning what reality encompasses?

What, exactly, is the difference between your senses and your imagination? You never experience an orange; you experience the appearance of an orange, or the sensation of its touch. But that's not the same as the orange itself.

I think someones been watching The Matrix one too many times, I mean its a great film but still...
If you go by that logic theres no reason for me to think any of this is real. For all I know I'm drugged to the eyeballs in a padded cell.
However if I was to act as if that were true then I would be making a huge assumption.
Normal human beings act on what they can see, hear, taste and touch and their ability to make sense of what knowledge is gained through these faculties. Until I am given reason to doubt these faculties then these are what I shall depend on to discern reality. If I do not use these faculties then I am left without any tools to discern reality, that is not acceptable.
Someone who decides he doesn't need these faculties to discern what is real is a fool who has left themselves deaf, dumb and blind to the world around them.
(P.S. Giving kudos to someone brave enough to actually continue the debate doesn't count as continuing the debate yourself fr0d0. ;-) )

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Maybe the language is from my dogma. It's what Christians say. The fully correct wording gets shortened and becomes confusing if you don't understand the references. I try to correct myself, but some slip through.

Yes I/ we do directly and personally know God. It's not just the bible. We accept that the bible is the word of God (is inspired by him and is very accurate), and check our thoughts against that. I need to talk in the lingo to say this, so please bear with me... I talk directly to God and he talks directly to me. This is the function of the Spirit in Christianity. It makes God known to us. Yes this is made possible through Jesus, but Jesus's physical being has no necessity in that (ugh - dogma alert ). His act of sacrifice does.
We treat the historicity as crucial and the miraculous as based on fact. But all of the time God's condition remains that he has to remain empirically unproven.

So the bible to Xtians is like the user manual to a direct contact with God. The bible is a record of what we can know about him. We think he is ultimately unknowable but that we can know some things. This is how we can define him. Part of that definition has to be his mystery.
Our life of faith isn't to live by a rule book, but to be directly inspired by him. To feel and experience the fullness of life that he gives out. I don't communicate with him in the 3rd person. I communicate directly. It's not "God be praised" but "I praise you", "I love you" etc.. This is what I mean by direct and personal.

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Thanks for the elaboration, fr0d0. I've gotten a better understanding of what you mean by "direct and personal."

At the same time, your post brought more questions into my mind, but I would just like to wrap up and bring our discussion to a close for now. I have other more important things to do. This thread has taken quite a lot of time out of my hands, and I'm sure that it did to yours as well, so thanks for your time and patience. Also, I apologize for making you feel insulted by my comments whether it was intended or not.

And good luck with responding to Raph and the rest of the gang.

The stage is yours.

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I'd like to reiterate that there is no way fr0d0 has blocked me and that he is blowing smoke and using the pretense of having me on block to avoid addressing me because he knows his arguments are fallacious and/or empty. He wouldn't block me because he wants to see what I'm saying. He may, however, be ignoring me, which wouldn't be surprising in the least.

Exhibit A: Above you'll see him respond to me, after claiming to have blocked me. Short memories indeed, fr0d0.

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Whatchu gonna say to that, hoary hobbit?

He already retreated with a monosyllabic answer in my debate with him so, another victory to me I guess? Honestly?
Sometimes it gets alittle samey beating him again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again but you know...
I've lost my train of thought. :-)

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It's never happened. Nor has fr0d0 blocking me, he'd never willingly miss out on engaging with me.

Yep well that's never happenned in the past Eld. People have always retreated to silence when I've come up with the goods. Some people have short memories. You guys are just deliberately stupid.

I'd like to reiterate that there is no way fr0d0 has blocked me and that he is blowing smoke and using the pretense of having me on block to avoid addressing me because he knows his arguments are fallacious and/or empty. He wouldn't block me because he wants to see what I'm saying. He may, however, be ignoring me, which wouldn't be surprising in the least.

Exhibit A: Above you'll see him respond to me, after claiming to have blocked me. Short memories indeed, fr0d0.

Well just to make absolutely sure I'm replying to your post. That means everything that you wrote in your post is now part of this post... which means he can't possibly pretend not to of seen it if he responds to any of the above. :-)