[quote='System of Solace' pid='335413' dateline='1347413286']
You might be surprised as to how fanatical they were. Besides, I did look it up. Thanks for proving yourself wrong. [/quote]
I didn't prove myself wrong. Read the rest of the posts in this thread. I misstated which bomb we were talking about. A very small thing considering war declarations aren't "Holy shit. I never saw that coming." kinds of things.
[quote]
Must I? I grow tired of doing it.[/quote]
Of course you must. The burden of proof is on you.
[quote]
[*]Suicide of thousands of citizens
[*]Buildings being destroyed and bombed
[*]Citizens being killed by careless soldiers
[*]Fanatical Japanese fighting for their homeland
[*]Major kamikaze attacks
[*]We would have to take a LOT of Japan to induce surrender, even capture of Tokyo does not guarantee it immediately
[/list]
90% of what you just listed describes every single country involved in World War II. It's also not proof. It's, "Hey, they were nuts. They wouldn't have surrendered." But, they did. They did, even though their military was not crippled by the bombings. They did even though they were in slightly worse of shape military wise than they were before the bombs.
[quote='Shell B' pid='335386' dateline='1347411186']
As far as we know, Russia only wanted Manchuria. And the US objective was to induce surrender as quickly as possible with the least amount of casualties. Truman was shocked to hear an estimate of US landing casualties-bloodier than D-Day, I believe. 50-100k, and that's only US soldiers establishing a beachhead. China was pretty ravaged, but I'm sure they wanted revenge.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what Russia wanted. They had declared war and Japan could not maintain it. They were cut the fuck off. What would they have done? Thrown rice at us? (That's not racist. They have a lot of rice. I am proving a point about their natural resources.)
[quote]
My point was that Stalin was very reluctant to ask for our help and if he thanked us he did not do so very sincerely.[/quote]
Wait, you said they were helping us. That was not your point at all.
[quote]Russia would not have launched a mainland invasion of Japan[/quote]
They did not have to. Again, Japan was cut off.
[quote] because we were just sitting on our asses for months. US-Soviet hatred was also due to differing governmental ideals, which continued from before WW2 until the 90's.[/quote]
Sitting on our asses? Oh my. As for the differing governmental ideas, hell yeah, they helped cause it. They did not come about because of the war. You're backtracking. Russia was not "helping the United States." You got that wrong.
[quote]Creed, I was about to suggest the same things be posted. Thanks.
[/quote]
You like scarecrows too?
You might be surprised as to how fanatical they were. Besides, I did look it up. Thanks for proving yourself wrong. [/quote]
I didn't prove myself wrong. Read the rest of the posts in this thread. I misstated which bomb we were talking about. A very small thing considering war declarations aren't "Holy shit. I never saw that coming." kinds of things.
[quote]
Must I? I grow tired of doing it.[/quote]
Of course you must. The burden of proof is on you.
[quote]
[*]Suicide of thousands of citizens
[*]Buildings being destroyed and bombed
[*]Citizens being killed by careless soldiers
[*]Fanatical Japanese fighting for their homeland
[*]Major kamikaze attacks
[*]We would have to take a LOT of Japan to induce surrender, even capture of Tokyo does not guarantee it immediately
[/list]
90% of what you just listed describes every single country involved in World War II. It's also not proof. It's, "Hey, they were nuts. They wouldn't have surrendered." But, they did. They did, even though their military was not crippled by the bombings. They did even though they were in slightly worse of shape military wise than they were before the bombs.
[quote='Shell B' pid='335386' dateline='1347411186']
As far as we know, Russia only wanted Manchuria. And the US objective was to induce surrender as quickly as possible with the least amount of casualties. Truman was shocked to hear an estimate of US landing casualties-bloodier than D-Day, I believe. 50-100k, and that's only US soldiers establishing a beachhead. China was pretty ravaged, but I'm sure they wanted revenge.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what Russia wanted. They had declared war and Japan could not maintain it. They were cut the fuck off. What would they have done? Thrown rice at us? (That's not racist. They have a lot of rice. I am proving a point about their natural resources.)
[quote]
My point was that Stalin was very reluctant to ask for our help and if he thanked us he did not do so very sincerely.[/quote]
Wait, you said they were helping us. That was not your point at all.
[quote]Russia would not have launched a mainland invasion of Japan[/quote]
They did not have to. Again, Japan was cut off.
[quote] because we were just sitting on our asses for months. US-Soviet hatred was also due to differing governmental ideals, which continued from before WW2 until the 90's.[/quote]
Sitting on our asses? Oh my. As for the differing governmental ideas, hell yeah, they helped cause it. They did not come about because of the war. You're backtracking. Russia was not "helping the United States." You got that wrong.
[quote]Creed, I was about to suggest the same things be posted. Thanks.
[/quote]
You like scarecrows too?
