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[Violet]

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Therefore none of us is different, and all of us are clones? Just because you were 'that way', and many people are 'that way': does not translate to all of us being that way. To agree with an age restriction... is to say that perfectly fine wine will not be "just right" until next year.

Yes because having age restrictions means you're all clones. e_e You're creating a strawman. No where did ANYONE say all teenagers act exactly the same, only that they are immature. Being immature does not mean you all act the same, it's ridiculous to even suggest such a thing.

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Then the majority of people is also irresponsible, Eilon. It is not fair, Eilon... it is equal, and this equality is unfair.

Now who is making hasty generalizations? Hmm?

Truth is I agree, many people are irresponsible, but it's irrelevant to argument, you're crossing over into personal responsibility for people in general.

To show you why equality is unfair: Person A works all day, works hard, works well... and gets paid as much as person B who does not work more than an hour a day, works lazily, and works poorly. This is equality, and this is why I will never support it: Equality is not fair.

Fair treatment would dictate that Person A would get paid a great deal for doing a great deal of work... and Person B would get next to nothing at all.

Person A never graduated high school he works hard all day because he decided he didn't want to go to go to school, and instead got a job working at his skill level.

Person B spent hard work and dedication as well as a lot of money going to school, going through college, and getting that job that they get to work on for an hour a day.

Sae, you're creating strawman. The world is far more complex than you make it out to be.

Let us translate this now to this age-line. Person A is reserved, mature, self-sufficient, and has 100% attendance... while Person B is obnoxious, immature, a moocher, and misses school almost enough each week to get thrown out.

Treating them equally, Person A will lawfully receive their ability to make choices for themself when they are 18. Person B will be able to make equivalent choices at the same time. This is an equal system... and because of that: this is an unfair system.

You may think it 'utterly absurd' that you get what you deserve... but me? I think it is fair.

Fair, I keep hearing this word fair. You know the world is hardly ever fair. That's a reality. Communism, which on paper is fair, is a complete failure. You honestly think a system of psychiatric evaluation for maturity would result in a fair and perfect world, that goverment controlling the individual rights based on what other people deem mature would actually work? Your argument is naive at best.

I learned a long time ago that what's ideal rarely intersects with what's realistic. We all strive to make the best of all these complex situations, and because people are simply only human, nothing will be perfectly fair.

Age restrictions are perfectly reasonable and as fair as you're going to get.

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How can you manage to say this, and accuse me of being ridiculous:

"No where did ANYONE say all teenagers act exactly the same, only that they are immature."

That is a blind, sweeping, generalization of all teenagers... when 'young adults' are often little different. This age line could only work as a true one-size-fits-all if we were all perfect clones... That is the single way an age line could work, and be considered fair.

Hasty generalizations? Who has the most power on the planet (Other than Oprah )? Humans. As such, we have to be the most responsible with our power. In every instance where we misuse that power: we have been irresponsible. You are surely not going to tell me that 'adults' don't misuse their power less than teenagers (who have less power). This is completely relevant to the argument, because teenagers (who often use adults as their role models) grow into those adults, who are then irresponsible. This creates a never ending cycle of irresponsibility, and immaturity as a result of such.

You suggest that personal responsibility for people in general is different that personal responsibility for specifically teenagers? I am sorry... but none of the mind-altering drugs on this planet could have made that look logical... Personal responsibility (and maturity) is what we are discussing, is it not?

Your suggestion for person AvsB (from my example I take it?) is rather unfair... because when you draw a parallel to (!)ANYTHING(!) other than high school: you would protest such unfairness. Do not people receive pay raises for work well done? Do not they advance through their bureaucracy? If there is a slacker in the workplace: do they get a raise (at all?) at the same time as the hard workers? If a person is consistently absent in the work place: do they maintain the same position as those in 100% attendance?

Revisit school: Person A is that hard worker.... should hard working Person A get the same raise at the same time as absent Person B. You tell me how this is fair, Eilon. Our world is quite simple actually: difference, and all that comes as a result of this. People seem to get caught up in the frivolities of our universe... which seem so different to them that they cannot envision such a simple answer to the universe... but it is because they have not thought upon it fully yet.

Whatever you have learned of governments... has come from imperfect generalizing governments. Show me a single government that has ever existed... that was an individually based system. Show me a socialistic meritocratic direct democracy? That you have never seen socialism done right... does not automatically mean that the system has faults. You will notice that the United States uses many socialistic concepts.

What is so bad about a government? Eilon, you make a society work without a government: and you get chaos. Society is only so because of the pyramid system of governing. Without it: society could not exist. I find it amusing that so many of us seem biased to governments... and all the more amusing that a government 'controlling individuals rights' is a bad thing.

I truly think such, Eilon... but as you are affirming this is naive: prove how it is. I do not suggest that absolute perfection is even possible... I state that it is possible for 99.9+% of us to live in a fair, just, individual, convenient, and kind world.

Again you do this:

"I learned a long time ago that what's ideal rarely intersects with what's realistic. We all strive to make the best of all these complex situations, and because people are simply only human, nothing will be perfectly fair. "

Being only human is a great thing indeed... and I am quite content that I am so. You argue that what is ideal... and what is realistic... do not intersect... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rev...rebellions

Those were all started by 'fanciful idealists' and/or the discontent with 'reality'. I repeat: How am I so different?

Finally, age restrictions are as far from fair as I think it is possible to get.