RE: Friend or Foe?
September 28, 2012 at 11:56 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2012 at 11:58 pm by Mystic.)
Brian37 thanks for your opinion but when you can provide conclusive proof of either of these:
1) God doesn't exist
2) If God exists now, he did not give us a way to know him in a properly basic manner(in spiritual way).
Then your opinion is more then an opinion but an argument to convince with proof on your side. Then we can actually have a conversation like there was a conversation when I provided ontological arguments from morality, greatness and beauty (and they weren't the classic ontological arguments).
Otherwise, I don't have proof to show you neither do you have proof to show me. The best argument I've come by for Atheism against "God" (doesn't disprove a Creator though) is the problem of evil. I've made a thread about that and we had a good discussion on it.
The proof lies within each of us, either way. If I don't know God exists, it's something I have to realize myself, not through others, and it certianly won't happen just by you asserting it. Likewise, if I have spiritual knowledge of God, I can't be relying on others to verify that. I can't go relying on others to believe in morality or free-will, it's all about self reflection. I might make you unconfortable in that I hold such a claim, but at the end, you can't know God through me, it has to be through self-reflection. If the whole world believes in morality, it doesn't prove it. And if the whole world disbelieves in one day, it will not disprove it either. Belief in morality is properly basic and lies in self-reflection.
Anyways apophenia answered my question, and I hopefully will read more on the subject. It seems by what she says that we really shouldn't be angry at religious people being blind towards logical problems. It's not entirely their fault. It can't be all blamed on willful want to not know the truth or to being blind to it.
That also tells me we should tone it down with aggressiveness towards religious people.
A mistake done by religious people often is that since they sincerely believe in what they believe, they think every sincere person would come to the same conclusion as them. This is not the case....
I understand you sincerely have come to Atheism, and lack a belief in God and think this is the logical step humanity should go through. I have my reasons to think otherwise. Be they correct or incorrect, is another thing.
But don't be angry and upset at others not coming to the same conclusion as you. So much people have all types of views about all sorts of issues.
And thanks Shell B
.
1) God doesn't exist
2) If God exists now, he did not give us a way to know him in a properly basic manner(in spiritual way).
Then your opinion is more then an opinion but an argument to convince with proof on your side. Then we can actually have a conversation like there was a conversation when I provided ontological arguments from morality, greatness and beauty (and they weren't the classic ontological arguments).
Otherwise, I don't have proof to show you neither do you have proof to show me. The best argument I've come by for Atheism against "God" (doesn't disprove a Creator though) is the problem of evil. I've made a thread about that and we had a good discussion on it.
The proof lies within each of us, either way. If I don't know God exists, it's something I have to realize myself, not through others, and it certianly won't happen just by you asserting it. Likewise, if I have spiritual knowledge of God, I can't be relying on others to verify that. I can't go relying on others to believe in morality or free-will, it's all about self reflection. I might make you unconfortable in that I hold such a claim, but at the end, you can't know God through me, it has to be through self-reflection. If the whole world believes in morality, it doesn't prove it. And if the whole world disbelieves in one day, it will not disprove it either. Belief in morality is properly basic and lies in self-reflection.
Anyways apophenia answered my question, and I hopefully will read more on the subject. It seems by what she says that we really shouldn't be angry at religious people being blind towards logical problems. It's not entirely their fault. It can't be all blamed on willful want to not know the truth or to being blind to it.
That also tells me we should tone it down with aggressiveness towards religious people.
A mistake done by religious people often is that since they sincerely believe in what they believe, they think every sincere person would come to the same conclusion as them. This is not the case....
I understand you sincerely have come to Atheism, and lack a belief in God and think this is the logical step humanity should go through. I have my reasons to think otherwise. Be they correct or incorrect, is another thing.
But don't be angry and upset at others not coming to the same conclusion as you. So much people have all types of views about all sorts of issues.
And thanks Shell B
.
