Searules, you claim my reasoning is full of logical fallacies and yet you play the Hitler fallacy on me...for an age line? Seriously? You keep parading around that my reasoning is not logical and fallacious, I do not see it that way. Instead all I see is you insisting there's a perfect solution that will make everyone happy which is completely unreasonable to me. The free flow of ideas is fine, but it's important to recognize when an idea is completely unrealistic.
We're talking about the age of legality and your arguments have been very hyperbolic. I never said the age line of 18 was perfect, I said it was reasonable. The fact that other countries have different age lines does not make ours unreasonable.
Children cannot support themselves in our society. Being homeless and digging through trash is not supporting yourself, it's simply surviving. There is nothing unsound about my view that the current system is fine.
1) Children cannot support themselves, need protection in order to be a functioning adult and valued member of society
2) Therefore parents/guardians have certain legal rights to make this happen, to see they are cared for, go to school, etc...
3) At some point a child becomes an adult. Maturity may vary but generally 18 is a good marker for determining that they can at least minimally sustain themselves, therefore they become legally an adult at 18, right around the time they finish an important level of education. (Despite the fact that kids can drop out at 16...I honestly think they shouldn't be allowed to drop out at 16, but that's another argument entirely)
4) Should the situation for a child be shown unhealthy, abusive, etc... There are steps to be taken to protect a child.
It's not perfect, no, but don't, as EvF pointed out, don't fall into the nirvana fallacy, or the perfect solution one. The system works fairly well, I don't see any severe injustice being done to those under 18, so unless you can prove that there is a severe injustice being done, you have no argument. And I don't think you have proven there is such a strong injustice done warranting a change of the system. I also don't think you have proven that your system is a better replacement.
I fully admit that no same person is at the same exact level of maturity at 18, but it's simple a reasonable distinction based on what we know of age and maturity.
The BMI is a terrible way to determine, on an individual basis, how fat and unhealthy someone is. But in terms of scientific study it is a good generalizer and is useful in those terms. There are many things that operate this way, because it's too difficult and unreasonable in some cases to go case by case, person by person. Especially, in the instance you're discussing, the science is very shaky and subjective. I believe psychiatry is a great science and valuable thing to study, but it's imperfect and one psychiatrist can come to a completely different conclusion than another. I personally think having psychiatrist determine how mature a person is and their function in society is far to close to totalitarianism for my tastes.
Theorize all you want on how to make Utopian world. That's fine. But I like to deal with realism, always have. I guess in some cases, it makes me pessimistic. Oh well.
We're talking about the age of legality and your arguments have been very hyperbolic. I never said the age line of 18 was perfect, I said it was reasonable. The fact that other countries have different age lines does not make ours unreasonable.
Children cannot support themselves in our society. Being homeless and digging through trash is not supporting yourself, it's simply surviving. There is nothing unsound about my view that the current system is fine.
1) Children cannot support themselves, need protection in order to be a functioning adult and valued member of society
2) Therefore parents/guardians have certain legal rights to make this happen, to see they are cared for, go to school, etc...
3) At some point a child becomes an adult. Maturity may vary but generally 18 is a good marker for determining that they can at least minimally sustain themselves, therefore they become legally an adult at 18, right around the time they finish an important level of education. (Despite the fact that kids can drop out at 16...I honestly think they shouldn't be allowed to drop out at 16, but that's another argument entirely)
4) Should the situation for a child be shown unhealthy, abusive, etc... There are steps to be taken to protect a child.
It's not perfect, no, but don't, as EvF pointed out, don't fall into the nirvana fallacy, or the perfect solution one. The system works fairly well, I don't see any severe injustice being done to those under 18, so unless you can prove that there is a severe injustice being done, you have no argument. And I don't think you have proven there is such a strong injustice done warranting a change of the system. I also don't think you have proven that your system is a better replacement.
I fully admit that no same person is at the same exact level of maturity at 18, but it's simple a reasonable distinction based on what we know of age and maturity.
The BMI is a terrible way to determine, on an individual basis, how fat and unhealthy someone is. But in terms of scientific study it is a good generalizer and is useful in those terms. There are many things that operate this way, because it's too difficult and unreasonable in some cases to go case by case, person by person. Especially, in the instance you're discussing, the science is very shaky and subjective. I believe psychiatry is a great science and valuable thing to study, but it's imperfect and one psychiatrist can come to a completely different conclusion than another. I personally think having psychiatrist determine how mature a person is and their function in society is far to close to totalitarianism for my tastes.
Theorize all you want on how to make Utopian world. That's fine. But I like to deal with realism, always have. I guess in some cases, it makes me pessimistic. Oh well.
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
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