[quote='Arcanus' pid='35397' dateline='1254113339']
[quote](1) Do you realize I've never said "fundy atheists" are fundy about atheism?[/quote] Yes, and you've emphasized it more than once.
[quote](2) If you strip away the atheistic nature of their views, are those views atheistic any longer? [/quote] No, by definition they are not.
[quote](3) If those views are no longer atheistic, is any relevance to my argument left?[/quote] No.
But there is relevance to my point that the belief system with or without the atheism is no more or less 'fundy', because atheism has no effect on that. So it still seems that your original point that there can be 'fundy atheists' is kind of gratuitous, trivial and undeniably obvious, if all you mean is that there can be atheists who are fundamental about things.
[quote](4) Do you deny that "atheistic views" exist?[/quote] No I do not. If all you mean is any view that is exclusive to those who don't believe in God...
...despite the fact that their atheism makes no difference other than that fact of their disbelief, so this is kind of a trivial thing to speak of, when you speak of 'fundy atheists'
[quote](5) Do you think your "religion vs. atheism" is a fair comparison? Don't you think it should be "theism vs. atheism"?
[/quote]
I only said religion because I perhaps wanted to include deists. So I'm not sure whether I agree with that or not, it depends.
One of my points, mostly directed at your 4th point, is that theists have theistic things to be 'fundy about' that atheists can't, whereas atheists just have things to be 'fundy about' that theists can perhaps be fundy about too...it is merely that it is defined atheistic, the label of the world-view would be different if theists were 'fundy about' them, they are labelled as exclusively atheistic, when taking away the non-belief of atheism doesn't actually change the rest of the worldview at all, so the worldview is basically, perhaps also open to theism. When atheists can't be open to theistic world-views, because they'd have to be theists to do so.
Theistic belief systems have colour, they have beliefs to them, etc. Atheistic ones however, are basically any belief system whatsoever that is without a God.
EvF
[quote](1) Do you realize I've never said "fundy atheists" are fundy about atheism?[/quote] Yes, and you've emphasized it more than once.
[quote](2) If you strip away the atheistic nature of their views, are those views atheistic any longer? [/quote] No, by definition they are not.
[quote](3) If those views are no longer atheistic, is any relevance to my argument left?[/quote] No.
But there is relevance to my point that the belief system with or without the atheism is no more or less 'fundy', because atheism has no effect on that. So it still seems that your original point that there can be 'fundy atheists' is kind of gratuitous, trivial and undeniably obvious, if all you mean is that there can be atheists who are fundamental about things.
[quote](4) Do you deny that "atheistic views" exist?[/quote] No I do not. If all you mean is any view that is exclusive to those who don't believe in God...
...despite the fact that their atheism makes no difference other than that fact of their disbelief, so this is kind of a trivial thing to speak of, when you speak of 'fundy atheists'
[quote](5) Do you think your "religion vs. atheism" is a fair comparison? Don't you think it should be "theism vs. atheism"?
[/quote]
I only said religion because I perhaps wanted to include deists. So I'm not sure whether I agree with that or not, it depends.
One of my points, mostly directed at your 4th point, is that theists have theistic things to be 'fundy about' that atheists can't, whereas atheists just have things to be 'fundy about' that theists can perhaps be fundy about too...it is merely that it is defined atheistic, the label of the world-view would be different if theists were 'fundy about' them, they are labelled as exclusively atheistic, when taking away the non-belief of atheism doesn't actually change the rest of the worldview at all, so the worldview is basically, perhaps also open to theism. When atheists can't be open to theistic world-views, because they'd have to be theists to do so.
Theistic belief systems have colour, they have beliefs to them, etc. Atheistic ones however, are basically any belief system whatsoever that is without a God.
EvF
