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Nothing supernatural about the western suburbs of Melbourne
#38
RE: Nothing supernatural about the western suburbs of Melbourne
(December 1, 2012 at 4:23 am)Daniel Wrote: I pay taxes, I have the right to petition the government for a grant.

Your church deserves no such right. Your church enjoys that privilege, currently, but that doesn't mean the church deserves it, and it is certainly a mistake to conflate privileges with rights.
The tax pool is collected from the community, so it should be used to the benefit of the community, not arbitrary fractions whose distinction is simply a common worship of an unsubstantiated deity.

Quote:We don't get land free. The land you're talking about is usually zoned for specific use and then sold cheaply. It isn't worth anything at all unless it can be rezoned.

I write of the land gifted to the Anglicans and the Catholics during the European colonisation phase of Australian history, but if you want to only discuss getting cheap land, you still need to justify the discount, and to do that you need to provide evidence that your god exists and is the only god that does.


Quote:
Quote:Don't use the genetic fallacy again. The government made the same mistake in trusting you to provide services that parents make in leaving their children in the care of clergy unchaperoned.

What is that arrangement of gibberish supposed to mean?

Getting insulting just because you don't comprehend something is poor form. Please don't do it again.
The genetic fallacy arises when someone points to a historical fact and attempts to use it as a causal explanation. To state that the government has historically trusted your church with X is not the same as making a case that the government should trust your church with X.
The analogy I applied was that just because the community has historically trusted the clergy to be good people does not mean that the clergy are good people, and that we have no reason to leave our children with them unchaperoned based on their membership to the clergy alone.

Quote:Schools ask us to run programs. More often then not it is they who ask the churches, not the churches who ask the schools.

Schools are underfunded and might well turn to you for assistance they cannot otherwise pay for, but that doesn't mean that your church is good or that you are obliged to help.
But again, I would like some contact details so I can ask people to confirm your vague assertions regarding these calls for help. Evidence or go jump, as the polite version of the skeptical imperative states.

Perhaps I'll get in touch with some contacts in waste water management and get them to ask for your help. See how far your alleged lack of self interest extends with regard to good works in the community.

Quote:Right, because we actually have a working justice system in Australia??? Hahahaha, don't make me laugh.

So... What is your point here. You seem to be stating that the legal system is no good. I know that it's not perfect, but it doesn't need to be perfect for you to frame a case for your deity if you have compelling evidence, and what's more, I never said it needed to be tested in a court, just that it would need to achieve a standard of evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

Quote:We don't get to make legislation BTW,

Bullshit. The religious influence in our federal and state governments is powerful to the point we are effectively a soft theocracy. Politicians who are not actively engaged in pushing their faith based agendas are at least alert to the need to play to the religious voters. Religion wields a strong sway over what gets through our parliaments and the evidence for this is the inequalities evident in our legislation.

Quote:and personally I don't like the ACL all too much at all.

But we're not discussing what you personally like or dislike, we're discussing your church, and they are very big on preaching to children in schools and against equality in our community.

Quote:I don't much like Jim Wallace, and I've met him a few times. You might remember that Wallace said that the homosexual lifestyle is more hazardous to your health than smoking recently.

I'm well aware of who Jim Wallace is and what he promotes. That you dislike him is neither here nor there in the matter of whether or not your church should have access to my taxes, my children or hold sway in the development of legislation.

Quote:While there is certainly some truth to the statement,

Homosexuality could make your knees fall off, but that still shouldn't allow you any say in what consenting adults do behind closed doors. Smoking is harmful to people's health, but the churches aren't fighting against it on health grounds. Alcohol is harmful to people's health, and no sweeping anti-booze hate campaigns have been waged by the religious. Can't think that anyone's been denied their rights or beaten to death because they drink, but such religiously motivated campaigns have been waged against gay people.
If someone says to a gay person, "Your lifestyle is unhealthy," or "your lifestyle is unnatural," their best response would be to say "So what?" Lots of things are unhealthy and unnatural which the churches are actually in favour of, so trying to turn a biblically mandated discrimination into a health or a naturalness issue is underhanded as well as just plain wrong.

Quote: it doesn't change the fact that homosexuality itself isn't a major health issue in society like he imagined. Personally, I think he's an idiot for saying that.

Still lots of non sequuntur coming from you. None of this justifies your church's privileges.

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Quote:Yes, it tells me that past governments got a lot of stuff wrong and that the current government is too inept to do much about it.
Cranky Yeah get off my lawn too while you're at it!

I'm not on your lawn. I am not calling for your religion to be banned to tell you that you are not free to worship as you see fit. I am calling for a level playing field. That a level playing field would require that you lose privileges that go back many centuries and that that loss might make you uncomfortable is of no interest to me. Those privileges cannot be justified and so should not be afforded you. Again, don't conflate privileges with rights, no matter how long the tradition that's attached to them.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Nothing supernatural about the western suburbs of Melbourne - by worldslaziestbusker - December 1, 2012 at 6:46 am

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