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Current time: December 22, 2024, 10:09 am

Poll: Are we free or determined?
This poll is closed.
Free
59.09%
13 59.09%
Determined
40.91%
9 40.91%
Total 22 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Determinism.....
#22
RE: Determinism.....
Who gives a damn if our conscious or subconscious is making the decision? It is still us making the decision. So yes, we have free will. That we can choose wrongly means our will is still free. Once we become capable of only the wisest option: we become computers, which are enslaved logic machines.

You have a computer that can make illogical choices... and you either have a wrecked computer, or you have free will. Show me that the subconscious always chooses rightly: and you will have shown that free will does not exist when a subconscious is present.

As I've said many times before... all of our knowledge is but the assumption that we are right. The subconscious may decide before conscious decision... but it is the conscious that justifies this decision. There are two parts of choice... firstly, there is what. What is there to choose between? And secondly? There is why. Why choose that choice? Our free will is dependent upon not only seeing the choices... but in justifying them.

You may have the impulse to take a bigger slice of pie... that is a subconscious decision. The subconscious is not capable of thought, nor is it 'aware' of its surroundings. It is simply the underlying bios upon which our operating system (consciousness) is built. It might reach decisions faster than the operating system... but that is only because it functions simply.

When have you made a decision that you haven't justified? You do not... you cannot... make such choices. Therefore you have free will. Therefore all of life has free will. Maybe the choice is simple... but it nonetheless is a choice. If something alive does not make choices... it is a biological machine. Synthetic intelligences are likewise mechanical life. Life always has free will... because life always has choice... and when life has choice: it will always choose. It will choose... what mechanism it justifies it's choice by does not make it any less a choice.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 2, 2009 at 4:23 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 5:52 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2009 at 5:24 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 2, 2009 at 9:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - October 2, 2009 at 9:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 2, 2009 at 10:50 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 2, 2009 at 10:55 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 2, 2009 at 11:02 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 11:20 am
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 2, 2009 at 11:30 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 3, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 11:32 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Godless - October 2, 2009 at 11:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by binny - October 2, 2009 at 12:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 3, 2009 at 5:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 3, 2009 at 6:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 4, 2009 at 5:06 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 3, 2009 at 7:46 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by amw79 - October 3, 2009 at 7:57 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 4, 2009 at 5:16 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 7, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 7, 2009 at 6:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 10, 2009 at 4:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2009 at 6:31 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 7, 2009 at 8:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 7, 2009 at 9:59 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 8, 2009 at 4:08 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 7:23 am
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 8, 2009 at 3:49 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 1:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 5:40 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 2:56 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 8, 2009 at 2:56 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 3:03 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 8, 2009 at 3:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 8, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 4:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 4:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by ecolox - October 9, 2009 at 10:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 4:23 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 6:00 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 6:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 6:27 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 9, 2009 at 6:31 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 9, 2009 at 6:09 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 9, 2009 at 7:13 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 11, 2009 at 3:45 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 12, 2009 at 11:41 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 10, 2009 at 3:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2009 at 7:23 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 12, 2009 at 12:06 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 13, 2009 at 6:38 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 15, 2009 at 3:22 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 15, 2009 at 9:10 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 15, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 16, 2009 at 9:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 18, 2009 at 2:10 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 18, 2009 at 3:15 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 19, 2009 at 12:26 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 17, 2009 at 10:28 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 17, 2009 at 10:49 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 18, 2009 at 11:11 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 24, 2009 at 2:41 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 19, 2009 at 4:34 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 19, 2009 at 6:24 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 19, 2009 at 5:50 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2009 at 3:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 12:47 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 1:45 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 3:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 5:50 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 7:03 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 10:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 28, 2009 at 9:08 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 28, 2009 at 11:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2009 at 12:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 30, 2009 at 3:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 30, 2009 at 4:49 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2009 at 5:20 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 31, 2009 at 4:55 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2009 at 5:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 2, 2009 at 1:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by downbeatplumb - November 2, 2009 at 2:11 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 2, 2009 at 2:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 2, 2009 at 2:24 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 11:44 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:21 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 4, 2009 at 12:28 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 1:22 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 3:52 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 4, 2009 at 2:28 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:33 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by rjh4 - November 5, 2009 at 2:22 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 2:36 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 4:10 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 4:27 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 2:40 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 5, 2009 at 6:42 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by rjh4 - November 5, 2009 at 9:26 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 6:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 5, 2009 at 9:52 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 10:09 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - November 6, 2009 at 1:39 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 7, 2009 at 7:21 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - November 9, 2009 at 6:11 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 10, 2009 at 2:54 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 9, 2009 at 11:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 10, 2009 at 3:05 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 10, 2009 at 6:48 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 10, 2009 at 7:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by littlegrimlin1 - November 10, 2009 at 10:55 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 11, 2009 at 8:51 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 12, 2009 at 6:22 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 12, 2009 at 7:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 14, 2009 at 12:50 pm



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