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Current time: July 18, 2025, 6:15 am

Poll: Are we free or determined?
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Free
59.09%
13 59.09%
Determined
40.91%
9 40.91%
Total 22 vote(s) 100%
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Determinism.....
#50
RE: Determinism.....
(October 9, 2009 at 7:13 am)fr0d0 Wrote: So you mean it is the person's choice (and not his ability to reason that choice) which describes his will? In other words, their rationalizing isn't relevant to will?

Describes his will? Sort of. Our conative faculties inform and influence our will, and the instantiation of our will is the volitional activity called choice.

Here, let me lay out my understanding on this. In order for choice to be meaningful and morally significant, it must be deliberate. To make a deliberate choice is to contemplate a set of options (e.g., chocolate or vanilla pudding) and to instantiate that which enjoys the greater degree of our desires (e.g., chocolate pudding), whether those desires are rational or emotional or some concert of both. If we evaluate this series closely, we realize that our choices are a function of our conative faculties; for example, the choice of chocolate pudding is a causal chain that is propagated and filtered through the motivational complex of our desires. This is why choices of the will always reveal the character of the person. The causal chain runs through the agent's conative faculties, not irrespective of them (libertarianism) but concordantly with them. Put in other words, the volitional activity of our will actively shapes this causal chain, as opposed to passively responding to a causal chain (determinism). We are not puppets. Nothing makes our choices for us. We make our own choices. Although our will is determined or "causally necessitated," it is so in the right way by forces internal to the choice-maker, not external. We know from the laws of nature that determinism is real, but we also know from the human experience that choice is real. Compatibilism is the theory that takes both seriously and articulates them as co-existent realities.
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 2, 2009 at 4:23 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 5:52 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2009 at 5:24 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 2, 2009 at 9:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - October 2, 2009 at 9:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 2, 2009 at 10:50 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 2, 2009 at 10:55 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 2, 2009 at 11:02 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 11:20 am
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 2, 2009 at 11:30 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 3, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 11:32 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Godless - October 2, 2009 at 11:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by binny - October 2, 2009 at 12:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 3, 2009 at 5:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 3, 2009 at 6:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 4, 2009 at 5:06 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 3, 2009 at 7:46 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by amw79 - October 3, 2009 at 7:57 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 4, 2009 at 5:16 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 7, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 7, 2009 at 6:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 10, 2009 at 4:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2009 at 6:31 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 7, 2009 at 8:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 7, 2009 at 9:59 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 8, 2009 at 4:08 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 7:23 am
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 8, 2009 at 3:49 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 1:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 5:40 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 2:56 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 8, 2009 at 2:56 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 3:03 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 8, 2009 at 3:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 8, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 4:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 4:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by ecolox - October 9, 2009 at 10:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 4:23 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 6:00 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 6:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 6:27 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 9, 2009 at 6:31 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 9, 2009 at 6:09 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 9, 2009 at 7:13 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 11, 2009 at 3:45 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 12, 2009 at 11:41 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 10, 2009 at 3:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2009 at 7:23 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 12, 2009 at 12:06 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 13, 2009 at 6:38 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 15, 2009 at 3:22 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 15, 2009 at 9:10 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 15, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 16, 2009 at 9:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 18, 2009 at 2:10 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 18, 2009 at 3:15 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 19, 2009 at 12:26 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 17, 2009 at 10:28 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 17, 2009 at 10:49 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 18, 2009 at 11:11 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 24, 2009 at 2:41 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 19, 2009 at 4:34 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 19, 2009 at 6:24 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 19, 2009 at 5:50 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2009 at 3:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 12:47 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 1:45 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 3:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 5:50 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 7:03 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 10:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 28, 2009 at 9:08 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 28, 2009 at 11:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2009 at 12:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 30, 2009 at 3:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 30, 2009 at 4:49 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2009 at 5:20 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 31, 2009 at 4:55 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2009 at 5:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 2, 2009 at 1:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by downbeatplumb - November 2, 2009 at 2:11 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 2, 2009 at 2:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 2, 2009 at 2:24 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 11:44 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:21 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 4, 2009 at 12:28 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 1:22 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 3:52 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 4, 2009 at 2:28 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:33 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by rjh4 - November 5, 2009 at 2:22 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 2:36 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 4:10 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 4:27 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 2:40 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 5, 2009 at 6:42 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by rjh4 - November 5, 2009 at 9:26 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 6:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 5, 2009 at 9:52 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 10:09 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - November 6, 2009 at 1:39 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 7, 2009 at 7:21 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - November 9, 2009 at 6:11 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 10, 2009 at 2:54 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 9, 2009 at 11:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 10, 2009 at 3:05 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 10, 2009 at 6:48 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 10, 2009 at 7:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by littlegrimlin1 - November 10, 2009 at 10:55 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 11, 2009 at 8:51 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 12, 2009 at 6:22 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 12, 2009 at 7:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 14, 2009 at 12:50 pm



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