(October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Yes. It is simply doing what it is doing, and I am doing what I am doing. So at any given moment that is all I can do, so it doesn't make sense to blame people unless that has a good effect for the future: Because at any given moment they could have done nothing different...the fact that they choose and can learn from their mistakes, is another matter. There's a difference between choice and free choice. Yes I have a choice, yes I have a Will, but how is it 'free'?IMO I don't how our will is free. Here is the wiki definition for free will: Free will raises the question whether, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions, decisions, choices. Addressing this question requires understanding the relationship between freedom and cause, and determining whether the laws of nature are causally deterministic
(October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Yes you choose, yes you decide. Or IOW, your brain does: And...how is that process 'free'? How can you do anything other than what you are doing at any given moment? How could people justly blame you or take revenge on you if you did something wrong, if at the moment you did the hypothetical act - you couldn't have done any different?Depends on what they are blamming me on. If I did something wrong and someone was taking revenge on me, I would find out what I had did wrong, and try resolving the issue. I couldn't have done any different (hypothetical act)
(October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: So can you 'do otherwise' at any given moment or not? And if so...how? I know of no evidence that any of us can...we are not exempt from the natural laws of the universe: We are part of it. We are just doing what we are doing.No I would not do otherwise. Exactly so we are doing what we are doing
(October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: This is not a debate on whether we have a Will or not, or whether we make Choices or not - it's a debate on whether it's 'free' or not.It is not free
(October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: I believe we make choices, I believe we have Wills. Why? That's a trivial matter to discuss because it's so obvious IMO. What I am discussing is whether our choices, whether our Will is 'free' or not. I don't believe it is.Our choice and our will is not free
(October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: But is your choice 'free'? Are choices 'free'? Is the Will, 'free'?No they are not free
Freedom is the ability to march to the beat of a different drummer without fear of retribution. Secularone
Ignorance is bliss but understanding is wonderful. Atheist forums.org
Ignorance is bliss but understanding is wonderful. Atheist forums.org
