Volition can mean both simply "Will" and "Free will", as far as I am aware.
And in either case, a dictionary is not proof of whether our wills, whether our volition, is actually free or not.
I was talking about volition too - Will=Volition. Now a question is, how is it free?
Yes our choices come from within us, as in they come from our brain. But how do we control our brain when it's the brain that does the controlling? Awareness of our choices is not evidence of free choices. The fact we are aware we are making choices is not evidence that we can freely control them, and...also - the fact that we may believe that our choices are free does not make them free.
Awareness of choices coming from within us does not imply that the choices within us are freely chosen.
We have external influences, environment and genetics for instance. They influence the decision making of the brain...however - how can "we" possibly control our brain when our brain is the "We" that does the controlling. The brain is the control centre, it's the part of "us" that does the controlling. As far as I am concerned it is completely on autopilot.
And additionally, Adrian also pointed out how there have been recent studies that gave strong evidence that our subconscious makes our decisions before our conscious mind is even aware of them. ...
But even without this, even if we were aware of them, how does that make them free? How does awareness of choice=free choice? That is a total non-sequitur as far as I am concerned, how does that follow? It's an illusion. If you are aware of a choice and then believe it is free and your conscious thinking caused it then that does not make it so.
Conscious awareness of choice is merely just that, conscious awareness of choice. It gives no valid implication that our choices are somehow "Free". Whether we believe they are "free" and whether they actually are free is of course two different matters. Otherwise you could say that believing in something makes it so, otherwise you're engaging in special pleading for the subject of Free Will.
(And we all know believing something is so does not make it so, look at religion!).
So, in short:
I simply ask how the fact "our decisions come from within us" - in other words, the fact our brain makes decisions, and our brain is in a sense "within us" - ...how does that imply that our decisions are free? You are talking about the fact our decisions are within us. That does not imply that the decisions within us are free. Our brain does the controlling and how is that exempt from the natural laws of physics?
Our brain is just doing what it is doing. And it is the control centre. And whether it believes (or "we" believe) that its Will (or our Will) is free or not, does not make it so.
EvF
And in either case, a dictionary is not proof of whether our wills, whether our volition, is actually free or not.
I was talking about volition too - Will=Volition. Now a question is, how is it free?
Yes our choices come from within us, as in they come from our brain. But how do we control our brain when it's the brain that does the controlling? Awareness of our choices is not evidence of free choices. The fact we are aware we are making choices is not evidence that we can freely control them, and...also - the fact that we may believe that our choices are free does not make them free.
Awareness of choices coming from within us does not imply that the choices within us are freely chosen.
We have external influences, environment and genetics for instance. They influence the decision making of the brain...however - how can "we" possibly control our brain when our brain is the "We" that does the controlling. The brain is the control centre, it's the part of "us" that does the controlling. As far as I am concerned it is completely on autopilot.
And additionally, Adrian also pointed out how there have been recent studies that gave strong evidence that our subconscious makes our decisions before our conscious mind is even aware of them. ...
But even without this, even if we were aware of them, how does that make them free? How does awareness of choice=free choice? That is a total non-sequitur as far as I am concerned, how does that follow? It's an illusion. If you are aware of a choice and then believe it is free and your conscious thinking caused it then that does not make it so.
Conscious awareness of choice is merely just that, conscious awareness of choice. It gives no valid implication that our choices are somehow "Free". Whether we believe they are "free" and whether they actually are free is of course two different matters. Otherwise you could say that believing in something makes it so, otherwise you're engaging in special pleading for the subject of Free Will.
(And we all know believing something is so does not make it so, look at religion!).
So, in short:
chatpilot Wrote:Defined as such although outside influences may be a factor in your decisions your decisions come from within you. You are free to decide what is best for you or what will be the best outcome in any situation, therefore in that sense you do have free will.
I simply ask how the fact "our decisions come from within us" - in other words, the fact our brain makes decisions, and our brain is in a sense "within us" - ...how does that imply that our decisions are free? You are talking about the fact our decisions are within us. That does not imply that the decisions within us are free. Our brain does the controlling and how is that exempt from the natural laws of physics?
Our brain is just doing what it is doing. And it is the control centre. And whether it believes (or "we" believe) that its Will (or our Will) is free or not, does not make it so.
EvF
