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Current time: August 20, 2025, 4:16 am

Poll: Are we free or determined?
This poll is closed.
Free
59.09%
13 59.09%
Determined
40.91%
9 40.91%
Total 22 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Determinism.....
#88
RE: Determinism.....
Considering the Hitler thing, it is quite possible that one of his victims, if they had not been murdered, would have become a tyrant equal to or more "evil" than Hitler himself. In this instance, Hitler murdering this person (or even many people including this person) could be seen as a good thing, given that it has prevented the possible evil of the future.

This is the problem with any ethical system. There are many ethical dilemmas you can have, the most common one is this:

There are 100 people on a train that is going to run off the tracks and crash, killing everyone. You can save the 100 by switching the train to another track, but there is an innocent baby on the tracks, and you haven't got the time to save it. What do you do?

Do you save the baby and let the 100 die, or do you "sacrifice the few to save the many" and kill the baby? Moral absolutists wouldn't be able to do either, and would leave the situation as unjustifiable. Ironically, leaving the situation (i.e. ignoring it and not doing any course of action) results in the deaths of 100 people, of which you could be said to hold the blame since you had the opportunity to do something but didn't. Moral relativists (or even nihilists like myself) would switch the tracks, killing the one to save the 100 on the train.

The second question is whether the ends always justify the means, such that if the end result is the most favorable, does it matter how we got to it, or even if we were planning on getting to it. What if Hitler's actions (though deplorable given he was acting on racial-cleansing alone) gave us the most favorable outcome. What if one (or many) of the victims would have become more tyrannical, and ended up causing more mayhem than Hitler himself? Surely then, Hitler's actions are more "good" than evil, given that the outcome we reached was the best one possible.

Just some things to consider Big Grin

Morality isn't as black and white (or absolute/relative) as people seem to think it is.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 2, 2009 at 4:23 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 5:52 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2009 at 5:24 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 2, 2009 at 9:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - October 2, 2009 at 9:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 2, 2009 at 10:50 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 2, 2009 at 10:55 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 2, 2009 at 11:02 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 11:20 am
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 2, 2009 at 11:30 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 3, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 2, 2009 at 11:32 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Godless - October 2, 2009 at 11:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by binny - October 2, 2009 at 12:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 3, 2009 at 5:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 3, 2009 at 6:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 4, 2009 at 5:06 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 3, 2009 at 7:46 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by amw79 - October 3, 2009 at 7:57 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 4, 2009 at 5:16 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 7, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 7, 2009 at 6:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 10, 2009 at 4:16 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 7, 2009 at 6:31 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 7, 2009 at 8:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 7, 2009 at 9:59 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 8, 2009 at 4:08 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 7:23 am
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 8, 2009 at 3:49 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 1:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 5:40 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 2:56 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 8, 2009 at 2:56 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 3:03 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Eilonnwy - October 8, 2009 at 3:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by leo-rcc - October 8, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 4:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 8, 2009 at 4:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by ecolox - October 9, 2009 at 10:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 4:23 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 6:00 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - October 8, 2009 at 6:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - October 8, 2009 at 6:27 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 9, 2009 at 6:31 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 9, 2009 at 6:09 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 9, 2009 at 7:13 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 11, 2009 at 3:45 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 12, 2009 at 11:41 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 10, 2009 at 3:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by fr0d0 - October 11, 2009 at 7:23 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 12, 2009 at 12:06 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 13, 2009 at 6:38 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 15, 2009 at 3:22 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 15, 2009 at 9:10 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 15, 2009 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 15, 2009 at 8:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 16, 2009 at 9:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 18, 2009 at 2:10 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Amphora - October 18, 2009 at 3:15 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 19, 2009 at 12:26 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 17, 2009 at 10:28 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 17, 2009 at 10:49 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - October 18, 2009 at 11:11 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 24, 2009 at 2:41 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - October 19, 2009 at 4:34 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theVOID - October 19, 2009 at 6:24 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 19, 2009 at 5:50 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2009 at 3:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 12:47 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 1:45 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 3:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 5:50 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 27, 2009 at 7:03 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 27, 2009 at 10:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - October 28, 2009 at 9:08 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2009 at 9:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 28, 2009 at 11:57 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2009 at 12:53 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 30, 2009 at 3:08 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 30, 2009 at 4:49 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2009 at 5:20 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - October 31, 2009 at 4:55 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2009 at 5:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 2, 2009 at 1:35 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by downbeatplumb - November 2, 2009 at 2:11 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 2, 2009 at 2:04 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 2, 2009 at 2:24 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 11:44 am
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:21 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 4, 2009 at 12:28 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 1:22 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 3:52 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Rhizomorph13 - November 4, 2009 at 2:28 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 2:33 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by rjh4 - November 5, 2009 at 2:22 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 2:36 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Tiberius - November 4, 2009 at 3:25 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 4, 2009 at 4:10 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 4, 2009 at 4:27 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 2:40 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 5, 2009 at 6:42 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by rjh4 - November 5, 2009 at 9:26 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 6:58 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 5, 2009 at 9:52 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 5, 2009 at 10:09 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by chatpilot - November 6, 2009 at 1:39 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 7, 2009 at 7:21 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Ryft - November 9, 2009 at 6:11 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 10, 2009 at 2:54 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 9, 2009 at 11:12 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 10, 2009 at 3:05 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 10, 2009 at 6:48 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by Violet - November 10, 2009 at 7:01 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by littlegrimlin1 - November 10, 2009 at 10:55 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 11, 2009 at 8:51 pm
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 12, 2009 at 6:22 am
RE: Determinism..... - by theblindferrengi - November 12, 2009 at 7:40 am
RE: Determinism..... - by solarwave - November 14, 2009 at 12:50 pm



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