Israel

[WinterHold]

Atlass...everyone's people went through alot, and that's only the myopic view.....we're all the same people in the first damned place.

I just didn't mention the Arabic society in details & the level of hideosity it reached, but I assure you we don't live on the same planet me & you. The arabic society -in almost every middle eastern country- is an inhuman society, based on many bad ideas & just crazy elements that you won't even believe.

On the standard of living, Egypt for example is a dumpster now, egyptian citizens are not allowed in many hotels because "their filth might hurt the western tourists", pollution is everywhere even in your own food & water, without a drug it's almost impossible to live & stay sane.

Your opinion worths nothing in arab countries ; you as a person worth nothing, back in saudi arabia, Americans used to get past checkpoints & even car accidents without any investigations ; while my brother was taken to jail because he was playing soccer in the street when he was a teenager..

My friend's father died because the ambulance van "missed the house" & didn't call back to check again for the address.. they just went back & left the old man dies..

And racism awaits us if we tried to immigrate.
Sorry but no ; we don't live in the same place : ) ..

An invasion, which, apparently, one side lost. This is the reality of nations. It would be much more tenable (to me) to argue that the land should go to the way that the people who currently occupy it wish for it to be. Some past slight isn't going to make a case for Palestine.

This opinion you're providing here is derived from the colonial age, it can simply be abbreviated to : "thieves have the right to keep your money forever".

None....of...which...excuses....either side...for any misdeed they commit or plan to commit in retaliation thereof.

okay okay I get your point ><
that goes on civilians only ; but military & mossad ? I hope they burn in hell.

The crux of this entire thread has been that jews are immigrants and invaders as though this somehow weighs in on whether or not Israel has a claim to some piece of territory.

No ; I didn't write anything even similar to that. I have problems with immigrations which took place after the Jewish/British invasion of Palestine in 1915. I also provided that the jewish legion was armed & trained to kill.

The immigrations which took place after the date 1915 are my problem.

It does, Isrealis and Palestinians.

I withdraw my apology.

I guess I'll keep hammering this until it sticks - even if you built a mountain of well supported statements, invoking tq renders the lot useless for constructing a compelling case.

I understand what you're doing, I have read the link many many times. Though I consider this act mutual.. If you're trying to disprove this topic by pointing to the contradictions in the author's pov, is nothing more than personalizing the issue & makes us go into these riddles..

You're using TQ because you didn't understand who I'm or what I want with these topics ; even though I have mentioned it in a previous post.

I'll also hammer this until it sticks .. I care not about anything but the information. As long it's valid, as long it's trusted, as long it's a real evidence, I post it. You then come, read, leave. My info would then ring a bell in your mind when Israel fucks you someday like it did to me : )

matter in fact, I care -as an author- about one thing only : is that you -as a reader- revise the sources I have brought & believe that they did actually happen ; that's it.

The posts then are a personal discussion with me ; Rhythm. They represent nothing at all. Many times I have said : don't take me as a representative of Islam on this forum, because those opinions which I provided in some posts are very personal without a real valid evidence .

Topics are something else ; especially like this one.

Right now, all I see is a denial for the crimes which Israel did. No member - but one- have stated that this topic is valid & the info in it are really valid. It's almost like everybody is trying to justify what Israel did, while my topic was never about justifying.. it was all about "this country did this & this & this to the arabs ; which most of them were civilians."..

Posts ? screw posts.. that's me ; my words & my opinions. The topic ? it's all wikipedia.

I hope you got my point.

Of course not, but my being cruel wouldn't excuse others for being cruel either......TQ

What if your cruelty was extreme to a way that gets people into a state of shock & depression which might lead them to blow themselves eventually in your face ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/emotional_he...ock1.shtml

Psychological shock can occur after a physically or emotionally traumatic experience but it effects your state of mind (although this can give you symptoms such as palpitations and feeling faint, it doesn’t usually lead to serious physical collapse).

In many videos I saw about Israel, the state of shock which many children suffer from after campaigns like "ghaza war" does actually turn them insane -science agrees with me on this-.

You can also keep wondering why suicide bombers are mostly from countries which war has touched in a very brutal way..

I can imagine what might happen to my mind, if your crulty took away all my family & friends with a single air strike "mistake".. tell that to the Iraqies who went into hellholes like "abo-ghuraib prison".

It's unwise from you to underestimate the effects your cruelty.

Meh, I can understand that you have a narrative about the west and westerners and jews that would likely lead you to that conclusion, sure. You could have just asked, of course. Whether or not air superiority is leveraged to maintain a claim of territory has very little to say about whether or not I agree with the claim to territory.

meh ><

Not an islamic state? So what? That's classic us and them. It's ridiculous, and case in point - is perpetuating the scenario that you're talking about. Of course it doesn't help that the only resolution you seem to be able to conceive of is total victory for "us" and utter defeat for "them".

Oh no, it's something more like justice. You see, I categorize crimes to pick a side ; the side which enforce the lesser crimes is that part I favor. That's why I always thought that native americans were better than the conquistadors, the first crusaders were better than the Muslims of that time..

One reason which makes me stand with the west against al-qaida for example. It also why I think women are better than men ; the total count of crimes which men are most likely to practice are more than women's.

totally different mentalities , mine & yours.

See why removing religion is crucial to solving a political problem? How do you propose to solve a political problem if you can't even begin to work past religion? Jewish this, muslim that, it's all nonsense - and doesn't belong in a discussion about a nation or it's policies and future when the stakes and outcomes are literally life and death - feast and famine. I don't consult Grimms Fairy Tales before going to war - and it doesn't have any weight in the decision-. Personally, I feel that anyone who does so or cannot help but to invoke the same does not need to be and does not deserve to be a part of that conversation. Down this road lay only tears.

You're an atheist & I'm a Muslim.. of course you wouldn't consult god as I do !

That's your own personal view. I also think that a person, who doesn't believe that some parts commit more crimes in wars and that all are the same, is also a person I wouldn't share a conversation about mutual peace with.

My religion teaches me to admit my mistakes ; but the other part must do the same. Equality is impossible in conflicts ; some part is always more or less human than the other.

How measure it ? measure the crimes of war.. something you might feel when you see Hitler's history for example.

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I'm clearly not getting any traction here, I'm not sure why, but lets approach this from a different angle.

Me too

Are you prepared to call for the return of all lands invaded, occupied by, or massively immigrated into, by islamic people to their native inhabitants?

Yes. Islam cannot be forced you know god doesn't accept the religion of somebody who is forced. The quran did state that in many, many verses.

Does the murder of anyone or group of people in the past or present by islamic people excuse those people (or anyone else) for killing muslims in the past or present?

If it was their lands, yes.. karma. Al-Qaida..afghanistan

Saddam..Iraq.

But civilian killings ?? NO. Nothing justifies that.. Israeli civilians are also included in this rule without any biasing ..