Daystar

[Daystar]

Now being an atheist means that you just strictly adhere to another cultural and social position.

Since when? I agree with your original definition of atheism: "Being an atheist then simply meant that you didn’t believe in God. Didn’t go to church or subscribe to the notion of that sort of control and cultural and social position."

If we had had the internet back in the 70s and 80s when I was an 'atheist' there wouldn't be message boards to discuss being an atheist and atheist subjects to discuss, the sort of atheist social gatherings in places like this, the common love of science and the political uprising against teaching creation in scool vs. evolution, and homosexual rights and abortion - the political struggle against Xianity. None of that stuff.

Almost everyone I knew growing up as a kid was atheist. At that time, of course none of that suff mattered, but as we matured that didn't change much. Most of the people I know from that time are still atheist but none of them are concerned with any of those things.

Kyu uses a term that I often use; militant atheist. I don't often like to apply labels to things but for me it describes the difference between the outspoken atheist that post on message boards like this vs. the kind of people I grew up with. My family and friends in a small town in the middle USA Bible belt.

So maybe it isn't that different but I am seeing a different side of it through the militant atheist on message boards like this.

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Anyway, it's very interesting to me that you bring up "the overall harmony of the bible." To me, I've never thought that the bible was all that harmonious- however, I'm still working on my first read-through, and haven't reached the New Testament yet. But so far, I have not run into all that much that really... I dunno, seems to be in agreement?

When I started my study of the Bible I approached it as an intense study. I was in a state of transition and had some time off and so for six months I devoted 15 - 20 hours a day 7 days a week to that intense study. Comparing translations, taking notes highlighting and researching Biblical resources with a real good reference Bible.

Most people wouldn't pick up on the fact that Genesis 3:15 was the first prophecy of Jesus Christ or that in the KJV the word shamble meant meat market, or that in the KJV words translated as unicorn were translated more accurately as animals that are real. Most people who start out reading the Bible - even if they are atheists and do so out of some secular obligation i.e. so they can criticize it from firsthand knowledge (which is a good thing) approach it from a perspective of Xianity. The immortal soul, hell, trinity etc. and that transmogrifies to some degree what they take out of it. Makes it seem less harmonious.

The majority of Christian influence I had was from the Jehovah's Witnesses who removed all of that pagan / Xian nonsense.

As for your definition of Atheism, I (other than what my profile would have you believe, whoopsie) am an atheist in that I do not believe in god. This is probably because I am myself a skeptic, and I have difficulty believing in anything at all if there is no evidence- and I speak here of scientific evidence, of provable/disprovable things. I don't feel that I necessarily stick to a cultual or social position. I just try to be a good person, based on my own morals and ethics, which I assume are ingrained in me by society, and my parents. But I don't think there are any rules to being an "Atheist" with a capital A.

I consider myself a skeptic still. In the sense that I don't want to believe if there is no scriptural support. I sometimes wonder at all of the militant atheists who wear scientific evidence as a sort of badge like Xians do morality. Here is the way that I look at science, and keep in mind I have nothing against science in general. The majority (about 98%) of it is not a conflict with the Bible, but rather religion. Science doesn't know everything or there would be no need of science, the Bible says that all religion and all governments will be destroyed because they are the threat to mankind and God's creation, not science, and science doesn't even attempt to investigate God so why do people of science feel compelled to discuss God? It is a political motivation, it vehicle for atheism.

If you sit around and listen to science minded people - and there is a difference between people who are scientists off doing science things and science minded people posting on message boards - they talk about a utopian future where everyone believes in 'science' and hardly no one believes in religion.

If you pay attention to them they are so much like religious people talking about heaven. Science is the hope for the future, some day we will fix all the worlds problems and live forever! Science explains to us how everything exists, the purpose of life. We must spread our knowledge of science and we must get rid of religion.

They don't see this as religious in nature, which scares the hell out of me because if you think about it science today is a far greater potential danger than religion ever was. Blind to its destructive potential and hungry for its day in the sun. Which, I believe it will and should have, but warn against its blind obedience.

Back to you, though, I'm still wondering exactly what you do believe- your beliefs are bible based; do you believe in the story of Genesis? In Adam and Eve? The Noachian flood? Did Jesus exist, did really perform miracles, and was he the reincarnation of God on Earth? Basically, is the bible an actual account of historical events, or is it a metaphorical collection of stories. I'd like to know what you think.

It isn't a collection of metaphorical stories, though it does sometimes use parables to teach. Genesis, especially the creation account, is misrepresented and misunderstood by most. Adam and Eve, the flood of Noah's day and Jesus and his miracles were real, Jesus wasn't the reincarnation of God on earth, he was Michael, God's son. The name Michael means 'Who is like God?'

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Thanks for your input daystar, this is very interesting.

Well, thanks, Gregori, and welcome to the board.

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You say you were an atheist ... at the risk of invoking the NTS fallacy, why were you one? What kind of atheist were you ... I mean me? I'm pretty much a militant atheist, very much a strong atheist using more conventional definitions.

What is the NTS fallacy? I was an atheist because that is the way I was raised. My folks didn't go to church and thought religion and God was a crock of shit. Religious people were nuts who wanted to control small minded people. A view that I think is somewhat shortsighted.

Using the term militant atheist is important because there are atheist who are not militant. Everyone I know are non-militant atheists. I only know 1 theist other than myself. I don't really like to use the term theist. I was a non-militant atheist.

I have to disagree that being an atheist, beyond an observation that we lack a sense of community that often centres around churches and so on, has any cultural connotations at all.

Why not? Or perhaps; do you see that ever changing in the future?

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Yo, you're back Daystar! .

I was here every day, I just thought you guys were done with me so I moved on where I was banned from EvilBible.com. 2 days is a record for me, boy them guys are narrow minded but it was fun.

I agree with a lot of your above statement. I struggle to believe in things I can't see and interestingly, as you are reading the Bible I will mention a verse (which I can't remember where it is but I can find it if needed) where someone says word to the effect that if you are true to what you believe, then this will be your measuring stick (with God). If you don't know something you can hardly be blamed for not knowing. If you can't see 'proof' because you think in a scientific way etc, then again, the onus is on 'God' to give you proof that you would understand and accept. That's what I think anyway.

Daystar- hope you don't mind me throwing in my two pennoth worth.

It isn't up to me. This is a public forum and I always want to hear what everyone has to say. Anyway - you made an excellent point. Jesus said that those who seek knowledge will inherit everlasting life on paradise earth, not just those who found it. Or think that they know it. No religion or individual person has ever or will ever (until paradise earth) know. The meek shall inherit the earth not the overconfident.

The Bible does say that the measuring stick is not what you know, or what you know measured by onyone elses stick is the point. Rather what you yourself are trying. You can believe in the wrong thing but if you are doing that in the true spirit of gaining that knowledge is the measuring stick. That you try.