The price of attonement???

[Mystic]

What sort of God is capable of creating humans who can love without condition, yet cannot (or refuses to) love without condition himself. A god capable of unconditional love is a god who has no need to create a hell, or anything like it. It is probably for that reason, perhaps above a lot of the empirical ones, that I feel certain that the Christian god is a miserably poor human invention.

I am a better lover than God. I suspect most people outside of the prison population (and a lot of them inside) are better lovers than God.

But a person for example can state it's evil to love people like Hitler or Stalin or Saddam...and that love where appropriate and hate where appropriate is the right approach. That unconditional love is not right.

I think emotionally, it is had to decipher which view is right. To love unconditionally or hate to evil people like Hitler or Saddam.

However, when we apply logic, it seems to favour unconditional love. I've shown why in the thread against hell.

One more reasoning I haven't shown goes through a syllogism like this:

God and people ought to be happy when evil person changes from evil to good.
This means they ought to have wished good for the evil person (compassionate love) from before.
This means they ought to have compassionate love towards an evil person.
Therefore it's a contradiction to say we ought to totally hate an evil person and wish evil upon them at any moment.

However, I wouldn't say a person hating evil people like Saddam are being bad or doing something immoral. It's just misguided and we need to apply rationality to our principles to decide which of the two decisions is better.

However to some it will seem automatically more beautiful to have compassion.

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What are some of the names of those first centry magicians you speak of? Where is the documentation of their deeds? Where is the silence scrunity of the religious leaders of that day?

The magicians of the Pharaoh, the ones who did some magic in reply to the miracles of Moses.

He doesn't do what he wants now. Even when he had free reign he still had to run it all past God. Read the book of Job for confirmation.

And Jesus would have a limited time to do what he wants, and can't do everything he wants either. So what's your point? What about the Anti-Christ? Isn't he suppose to do some miracles?

Satan was playing a role, and is bound/limited to the degree he can play it. Christ power and authority Comes from the Father, He is doing the Father's will.

Originally, Satan was an Angel following will of God. I don't see how you have shown it's not possible the father allows Jesus to do what he wants for a limited time. Perhaps he is also given limits.

what would be the point? If it is all some trick then we are all doomed like the muslims anyway.

Or maybe nobody is doomed but they are getting fun out of people believing the notion (which seems silly). Or maybe it's a trial (testing people's intelligence, integrity, etc).

Then you made the assertion being born is a sin. Which it is not. The goal posts have not moved you do not seem to understand their placement.

Ok what I was trying to say is how the child is acceptable, but sex out of wedlock is unacceptable.

But if God reacts with mercy and compassion (attonement), you don't see it as result of sin?

No, why? Because sin is Choice. You understand God to be uncontroled emotional mess who is lead around by his hatred of sin.

I see a God who distains sin, but allows us the oppertunity to sin in order for us to make a choice (where we want to spend eternity), but the very act of choosing disqualifies any choice we make. Enter Jesus and his attonement, now the plan is complete. God gives us the ablity to Choose in the garden and also attones for the sin we commit when making our choice.

Here is the deal Drich. You are saying suffering as a punishment is a result of sin, from the perspective it's God implementing his wrath. But you say suffering atonement cannot be as a result of sin, from the perspective it's God implementing compassion and forgiveness.

You don't see double standards here? Just say you don't agree with the latter, but don't make up things like "how can something acceptable be the result of something unacceptable?".