The price of attonement???

[Drich]

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There's that incompetence rearing it's ugly head again. It isn't that I -couldn't- see love there Drich, I'm bluntly stating that there isn't any there to see. Now obviously, I can't blame you for not knowing much about me....but I've been married twice, I loved (and still love) both of my wives. Hell, I can't think of any girlfriend I've ever had that I didn't love.

Ahhh, Your right it was incompentance on my part as I assumed you knew that love (as being discussed here) had a broader range than the Eros Your describing with your many women.

I must say You are Right. The Love God has shown you, has nothing to do with Eros love or the passionate love man can have for a woman. Agape has nothing to do with Eros, and there by can be deemed 'not that kind of love.'

I have 5 children that I love dearly (one that I haven't seen or spoken to in in nearly a decade).

The same can be said of the 'Storge' you have for your Children.

I love my friends, even Lilly........,

or the Phileo you have for your friends.

...........you know where I don't see it?

Indeed I do. Your heart has been blinded to Agape. In that you do not see or even recognise the Love of God. Which brings me back to my orginal assertion. God has allowed your heart to be hardened to Agape, and the only way to know this love is to ask God to share it with you.

Now that my pervious inablity/incompentance to address your ignorance of the 4 basic forms of love, it is on you once again to develop an awareness or experience Agape for yourself. For as I said in the beginning there is nothing I can do to help you. Only God can share this love with you, and as per what He had written He will not, unless you first humble yourself before Him and simply A/S/K.

None of this love I see, or my seeing it all over the place, is anything I can even remotely describe as virtuous or somehow unique to me. It seems - in my experience - to be business as usual. Something that just runs on autopilot for the vast majority of us...which makes me wonder what sort of malfunction you're laboring under - that would cause you to invent a god with such a faulty psyche, such a cruel and contemptible concept of love.

So, you believe yourself to be the 'love standard' of the Human race.. That is really egotistically conceeded, but still funny.

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Still the same God.

It is interesting that, for the sake of maintaining blind faith in your belief, you completely skipped over the fact that god did change from one testament to the other.

How does 'changing testaments' (An academic note) have anything to do with the Character of God? (what is actually being discussed.)

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There's that incompetence rearing it's ugly head again. It isn't that I -couldn't- see love there Drich, I'm bluntly stating that there isn't any there to see. Now obviously, I can't blame you for not knowing much about me....but I've been married twice, I loved (and still love) both of my wives. Hell, I can't think of any girlfriend I've ever had that I didn't love. I have 5 children that I love dearly (one that I haven't seen or spoken to in in nearly a decade). I love my friends, even Lilly........, I have a large family, I love them too. In fact, I don't think I could throw a pebble without hitting some love. I'm surrounded by it, I find it easy to return, I see it everywhere...........you know where I don't see it? Uh huh. Again, try not to confuse your incompetence with my ability to see love where love is present. Your hideous little snuff tale just doesn't do it for me. I suppose this is just another shining example of where the words of your almighty god are utterly and completely hollow. How your spirit (and you) managed to fuck this one up...is frankly ,beyond me. To really drive this home. None of this love I see, or my seeing it all over the place, is anything I can even remotely describe as virtuous or somehow unique to me. It seems - in my experience - to be business as usual. Something that just runs on autopilot for the vast majority of us...which makes me wonder what sort of malfunction you're laboring under - that would cause you to invent a god with such a faulty psyche, such a cruel and contemptible concept of love.

Bravo for this post.

What sort of God is capable of creating humans who can love without condition, yet cannot (or refuses to) love without condition himself. A god capable of unconditional love is a god who has no need to create a hell, or anything like it. It is probably for that reason, perhaps above a lot of the empirical ones, that I feel certain that the Christian god is a miserably poor human invention.

I am a better lover than God. I suspect most people outside of the prison population (and a lot of them inside) are better lovers than God.

..And if God's love is not unconditional? After if we are indeed speaking of the God of the bible his love is very conditional. John 3:16 is the most popular verse that stipulates this condition. The condition being (That who ever believes... Will not perish, but have ever lasting life.)

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What are some of the names of those first centry magicians you speak of? Where is the documentation of their deeds? Where is the silence scrunity of the religious leaders of that day?

The magicians of the Pharaoh, the ones who did some magic in reply to the miracles of Moses.

You do know the events of moses happened sometime before Jesus right?

And I am sure you understand the story your have sited to know that those magicians were discredited, when confronted by the power of God, so please explain how this helps your arguement in any way.

And Jesus would have a limited time to do what he wants, and can't do everything he wants either. So what's your point?

That nothing Happens with out the approval of God. Meaning Jesus would not have been given the power of God if He were going against the will of the Father.

What about the Anti-Christ? Isn't he suppose to do some miracles?

Do you understand what the term means 'Anti-Christ?' The prefix Anti means "Not or apposed to." Not Christ or not our savior or apposed to our savior our God. Which will be allowed by God when the time comes. When the time does come His opposition will be as clear as those who oppose God on this message board.

Satan was playing a role, and is bound/limited to the degree he can play it. Christ power and authority Comes from the Father, He is doing the Father's will.

Originally, Satan was an Angel following will of God. I don't see how you have shown it's not possible the father allows Jesus to do what he wants for a limited time. Perhaps he is also given limits.

And I do not see how you do not understand this simply precept: I God is out trick then we have no hope. If however He is trust worthy (which every indicator we have been given says He is then those who do not seek attonement are the ones without hope.)

Or maybe nobody is doomed but they are getting fun out of people believing the notion (which seems silly). Or maybe it's a trial (testing people's intelligence, integrity, etc).

So Christ dies a horriable death so they all can have a laugh? Why not just laugh? why go through the trouble? I don't know where your from but around here it is beyond foolish to prank someone if it results in your own death.

Ok what I was trying to say is how the child is acceptable, but sex out of wedlock is unacceptable.

yes.

Here is the deal Drich. You are saying suffering as a punishment is a result of sin, from the perspective it's God implementing his wrath.

Actually no, the pope and subsequently every catholic may say that. The bible teaches us something differently. 'suffering' is a consenquence of sin, nothing more. The Only punishment of sin comes in the way of Death/Hell.

But you say suffering atonement cannot be as a result of sin, from the perspective it's God implementing compassion and forgiveness.

You don't see double standards here?

no, because as I said Attonement circumvents the only recorded punishment God has for sin.

Just say you don't agree with the latter, but don't make up things like "how can something acceptable be the result of something unacceptable?".

I do not agree with your whole assement, because 'suffering' has nothing to do with punishment.