RE: God's God
April 9, 2013 at 12:49 am
(This post was last modified: April 9, 2013 at 1:32 am by Godscreated.)
(April 8, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: A lot of words which disproves nothing. The only reason you ever challenge Christians to prove God is because you believe God who is Spirit can not be proven. What you can't understand about those who seek God, we know Him through His revelation to us of who He is. Because you have not sought Him, how is it you believe you're qualified to dismiss Him? You want something to disprove, try my relationship with God, disprove I have not experienced the God of the Bible. I did not try to bring God into existence through omni- anything, God has always existed and because of this He is omni, whether you want to accept it or not, what you will never be able to do is wish the God of creation out of existence. Try as you may, He's not going away.
median Wrote:1. HA! The "proving" is your job there, not mine.
I do not need to prove my experiences with God to myself, I know there real. It is you who has to disprove I have experienced the God of the Bible, It's impossible for me to deny what I know. So get to it.
median Wrote:2. The reason why I challenge Christians (as I used to be one of you and used your same arguments) is irrelevant to the truth or falsity of your case. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate how you know your specific deity is actually real.
I told you experiencing Him, if you want to see it demonstrated come walk with me. I think you're mad because you never experienced God and now take it out on Christians.
median Wrote:3. Huh? What is a "spirit"? This term is just as incoherent as the term "God" or "Yahweh" or "Allah". Anyone can makeup any fictitious character they want. It doesn't make it true or actually real. You need definite primary characteristics, not just hear-say or secondary anecdotes. It seems you don't actually care whether or not your beliefs are actually true. You just want to believe your assumption.
To want to believe an assumption and live your life by it would be crazy, this must be what you did and it made you mad. I've experienced God over and over and as far as primary characteristics, how about love, kindness, peace, patience, promises kept, caring, provision and ect... I've experienced these from God.
median Wrote:4. As is so typical with you Christian apologists, when you have no better come back, you commit the fallacy of Shifting the Burden of Proof (as well as the "b/c I said so" fallacy). NOPE! I won't fall for it. It's not my job to disprove your claim to "experience God". I used to say the same thing. But all religions in the world ultimately fall back to some non-demonstrable, internal, invisible, subjective (gay sounding), subjective "personal experience" they think they had with the one specific deity they grew up with in their culture (Yahweh in America, Allah in the Middle East, Krishna in Southeast Asia, etc). So what! Just because you think you had some "experience" doesn't mean your interpretation of that experience is true. It just shows that you don't care whether your beliefs are actually true and that you are willing to practice credulity, gullibility, and irrational argumentation to keep believing what you assumed from the start.
I assume nothing about God, He has proven himself to me, I know with no doubt He exist, your just mad because you did not and could not have or you would not have rejected Him. I've never said I can prove to anyone God exists, I did not prove this to myself, God proved to me He is real. I laid out a challenge to you, don't make excuses, accept it or refuse it.
median Wrote:5. HA! Your last bit is comedy. First you say you "didn't try to bring God into existence" (by attempting to define this alleged being into being), and then you proceed to do just that! How do you know this deity exists? Can you demonstrate it? Again, if all you have is some subjective personal experience, and an ultimate fall-back onto "faith" then you really have nothing b/c faith is just gullibility dressed up. It isn't a reliable pathway to separating fact from fiction. Anyone can just have faith in anything. That doesn't prove a damn-thing.
My experience is objective, I do not try and delude myself, that would be stupid. Faith leads to belief, belief to knowledge, knowledge to revelation, at what point did you miss out on a path of experiencing God.
I guess that means you're gullible every time you go to sit down, I suspect you do not test out every chair you put your rear in, people would call you crazy if you did not demonstrate faith in the chairs to hold your weight. Having faith in the chair may prove your sanity.
(April 8, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Godschild Wrote: A lot of words which disproves nothing. The only reason you ever challenge Christians to prove God is because you believe God who is Spirit can not be proven.
Ryan Wrote:The only reason we challenge you to prove God is because you assert he exists but there's not a scrap of objective evidence that he does. Your claim sounds like bullshit and you are 100% incapable of demonstrating that it is not.
I've never stated I could prove God to you, as I've said before that is God's work. My knowledge of Him comes through a relational experience and I've never said otherwise.
GC Wrote:What you can't understand about those who seek God, we know Him through His revelation to us of who He is.
Ryan Wrote:What you can't understand is that subjective experience is not knowledge until it is verified outside of your own head.
My experience is not subjective, it's an objective relevant experience and for Christians it's proven outside of our heads, just because you do not want to accept our real experiences does not nullify them in the least.
GC Wrote:Because you have not sought Him, how is it you believe you're qualified to dismiss Him?
Ryan Wrote:Christians made up that requirement, and the truth of that requirement hinges on the existence of your God. Which you can't prove. So, your requirement is meaningless, as well as full of shit, as there are many, many atheists who made the attempt and found nothing.
Why they found nothing I do not know, maybe they did not like what they saw, could be the were scared of what they saw, that's if they went far enough to see God. What could be the real problem is they put faith in a book and not the Author of life that brought the Bible into existence.
By the way what requirement did Christians make up, Christianity is a relationship between God and man, God made this relationship possible, so the requirements would be His not man's.
GC Wrote:You want something to disprove, try my relationship with God, disprove I have not experienced the God of the Bible.
Ryan Wrote:Until you can prove that God exists, your assertion of a relationship with him means nothing.
Proving God exist to you is not a requirement for me to have a relationship with Him. It is you allowing God to prove Himself to you that is required for you to have a relationship with Him.
GC Wrote:I did not try to bring God into existence through omni- anything, God has always existed and because of this He is omni, whether you want to accept it or not, what you will never be able to do is wish the God of creation out of existence.
Ryan Wrote:One cannot wish out of existence what never existed in the first place. Which is why not a single atheist ever does that.
You're preaching to us that God exists and that we should take your word for it because that's all we have. How stupid must one be to do this day after day, month after month, knowing there is zero chance of success. If your God shows up with his angels and announces himself in person, maybe some of us will pay attention. Until then, one cannot, in good conscience, even assume that you are not entirely full of shit.
First off I'm not preaching, whether you believe me or not is not relevant to God's existence. I do not know what kind of chance there is for a nonbeliever to come to Christ, only God knows that. God says that there is always a chance as long as He strives with a person, and Christ said to go, so I do because I've chosen this as my life and it's not stupid. When God shows up with His angels it will be to late for those who have rejected Him. If He does show up with His angels in your life time it will be your pants that will be full of .... and that my friend is not meant to be funny.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.