1984 & A/S/K revisited

[Undeceived]

Now we're just throwing apples and oranges at each other. You say God has no evidence, I say He does. God made us in His image and gave us a conscience. His entire creation is evidence. "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Rom 1:20). I think we agreed that these are evidence a long time ago. The question is whether the evidence is good enough for the beholder. That's where faith comes in. If you like God, the evidence will be sufficient. If you detest God, you will find whatever reasons within your grasp to deny the evidence.

Ok, perfect. Why are you justified in doing this for your god but not the Muslim? You need to meet me half way and understand that your convictions match your presuppositions, therefore I can't take your suggestions seriously because they are, so far, unjustified. I therefore propose a method for being able to come to truth, but you want to override it and simply urge me "to have faith". So ok... perfect... but why your god and not Baal? It seems like there's no reason at all to choose the Judeo-Christian god apart from the one thing that was out of your control: your geographical starting point on this earth.

Do you see what I'm saying? It's illogical for you to tell me "look! The evidence is all in the Bible!" because I could do the same with you: I could convert to Islam and say "hey, the Qu'ran explains everything you need to know!".

Are you sitting here arguing against Islam or Christianity? Christianity, because it is already apparent to you that its evidence is stronger. Again, faith goes beyond reason, but reason is still paid attention to. The Bible contains no convincing internal contradictions. The Quran does. And a loving, personal God is more consistent with the creation we see around and in us.

Before I respond to this, I need to ask a question. It seems to me that there's an apparent contradiction: You say "...truths about God or morality or purpose cannot be known through the senses" then later on you say "[we] put faith...into Jesus...who will respond...by providing us with revelation". How am I supposed to receive said revelation/truth without my senses? To me it seems like our senses are crucial for such a task, hence the apparent contradiction.

'Sensory intake' generally refers to the observation of material objects through sight, touch, taste, smell or hearing. Revelation is encountered directly in the mind. Spiritual inspiration is one example. There are instances in the Bible of 'revelation' in the form of a physical appearance, but that's not what we're referring to here. We're referring to the mental realization of God's immediate presence.

Much like the con won't be a con unless you buy into it. Once you believe it, you will see it. Take your pick at any other religion for an example of this -- and if you met me halfway, you would see why your explanations are worrying, because there's no basis for your belief. Just presuppositions that will inevitably align with your desired god's word.

If this were an argument, it would go like this:
1. The Bible could be a deception
2. Therefore, the Bible is a deception
But we have reasons to believe the Bible is more than mere human ingenuity. Fulfilled prophecy, for one. No other religion has real fulfilled prophecy. http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Prophecy/
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/...ecies.html
http://pleaseconvinceme.com/2012/the-old...-prophecy/

Be honest-- do you want God to reveal Himself to you, in all His power and glory and judgment? The way you answer that question will tell you if you are a Christian or an atheist. You see, it is the agent's desire, or faith, that matters.

It's an ironic question, because as a former Pentecostal Christian, it's what I wanted the most. That was my honest desire and I didn't have even 5% of the knowledge I now have after joining online forums, which means I had zero doubts whatsoever. Just a sincere faith, but I guess reason prevailed in the end.

Do you consider yourself a good person worthy of heaven?