1984 & A/S/K revisited

[Godscreated]

Before I start to answer your statements I want to say this, Undeceived stated and I should have the beginning of faith comes from God, by the Holy Spirit, referred to as being called by the Father, so faith doesn't even begin with us, it originates with God.

To believe what you just said, I need to believe in God, and round we go...

Why are you taking every thing I say and turn it around, are you not able to understand, I think you do, you're just wanting to be unreasonable, it's hard for me to believe you're a thick headed boob.

---

I do not have it backwards where God is concerned, nor do you have it wrong where known things exist. To start with knowledge you are starting with some things known. When you start with faith you start with the unknown, concerning God even the faith is unknown at the start. If one has knowledge of something then why do you end up in faith, to me that is not logical.

---

Ok, if you don't have it backwards where God is concerned, then why did you pick the Christian god and not the Islamic god to begin with? At the very beginning, you don't have knowledge of either, yet you chose to put unjustified faith into one of them. Why is that?

I made that clear in the other post, only the God of the Bible gave me the faith to get started. None of the rest bothered they must not care. My faith was justified by the God who showed interest in me.

It makes sense that knowledge leads to faith only when we're talking about an action that follows from that knowledge. I could have the knowledge that the chair is made of sturdy parts and from there I could form a belief that it can hold my weight. We could just stop there, but the moment I go sit on it, I'm putting faith into it that it won't collapse on me.

Actually that is not accurate, you have knowledge the material is strong, agreed, then you say from that you can form a belief the chair will hold your weight. Now that's a big leap, you do not know the craftsman that made the chair, nor do you know his level of skill, as a woodworker I know the faith you're getting ready to exhibit will land you on your fanny. So if we follow your K/B/F then we would find ourselves sitting on a pile of sturdy material and quite embarrassed.

---

I did not say that, it's not even suggested in my statement, so tell me why did you reply as if I had. I believe you are trying to bring confusion into this conversation. Did I not say F/B/K, why did you jump over faith, the whole F/B/K starts and ends with God, it's up to us to accept. God gives us these gifts it's whether we accept them or not as to how deep we go in the relationship with God.

---

I said what I said because you are asserting what I said. Look at my bolded bit; I need to believe in God in order to believe in God. You've in fact ditched the entire F/B/K process and just said "our starting point is that God exists". It's unjustified leaps of faith everywhere we look...

I did not assert what you said, and did not say the starting point was God exist, even though that is true. If we do not know for sure God exist before He gives us the faith to search Him out, then we do not know. As I said before it can't be unjustified faith, God gives us faith to justify our search. You're beginning to run out of excuses and need to use distraction and misdirection to keep you're argument going.

Again my faith was not unjustified, it began with God,

To receive anything from said being, you need to believe in him first... round in circles we go

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous, man needs faith to search out God, that is unless God was to appear in front of you as you desire. Salvation comes through faith for us, so if God were to appear in front of you...well were would that leave you? Your the one trying to make circles out of this, I've given you a straight line to follow with F/B/K. Check out what I said to Ryan, replacing faith with the seed in Matthew 13.

---

It was given to me as it's given to all as my starting point. It was up to me to act upon the faith given me,

---

Wait, so now it's not you putting faith into him, but rather him giving you the faith?!?! What is going on!

This is what I've been saying, where you been, like I said it starts with God giving faith and ends with God giving knowledge, it's gifts from God and we can either accept them or reject them our choice.

I could have rejected it at this point, in my case I did not,

Of course you didn't, because even before your "disbelief" you in fact already believed, hence why you can make such statements as "God gave me this, God gave me that".

That is plan crazy, what's the matter with you, I can make those statements only because God has given me the knowledge to understand to a small degree how He works with mankind.

---

many do, then belief comes through revelation from God and I believe most through the scriptures, at this point people will still reject God, for some reason they choose not to believe.

---

Because they're at the beginning of the entire process. You dress it all up in a way which makes it seem like everything's good so far when in fact you've smuggled in your god's existence into this already.

I've smuggled nothing into this, you looking for a backdoor to leave through.

---

Then comes knowledge through the belief in the relationship one has with God, and this knowledge leads to an awesome relationship in the knowledge of God. This is the point I arrived at many years ago and because I've experienced this, with an open mind by the way, I can not understand how it's possible to reject God.

---

---

Having this knowledge of God is as I said before where I have contention with those who say they have come to this point and rejected God. I personally can not understand how one could get the point of knowledge and still reject God.
As far as the 66 99 you purpose I can see that, and can accept it as why many leave God at the points of faith and belief, but not when one comes to the knowledge of God.
Why haven't I accepted other gods, none of them have ever given me the Faith to get started with.

---

The rest isn't really worthy of a response because it doesn't follow as a logical conclusion. Even your reasoning for not accepting any other god is not logical because you aren't treating them the same way. If you presupposed their existence, then "they" would be more than happy to "give" you faith, as long as you've compromised yourself and decided they are real for no apparent reason like you have done with the Judeo-Christian god.

If they are there then why did they not give me faith to start on a path with them, why is it the God of the Bible beat them to the action, they had many, many years to get in touch with me, I lead a secular life open to the world. I heard plenty about many different gods back then, tell me where were they when I could have been influenced. Your problem is you gave up on God and now you're ...well I guess plain ol' mad.