1984 & A/S/K revisited

[FallentoReason]

Before I start to answer your statements I want to say this, Undeceived stated and I should have the beginning of faith comes from God, by the Holy Spirit, referred to as being called by the Father, so faith doesn't even begin with us, it originates with God.

To believe what you just said, I need to believe in God, and round we go...

Why are you taking every thing I say and turn it around, are you not able to understand, I think you do, you're just wanting to be unreasonable, it's hard for me to believe you're a thick headed boob.

I actually don't see how I'm misrepresenting your statement. I'll take you step by step to show that you're using circular reasoning:

1) To believe that God exists, I need faith in God [assumption]
2) Faith doesn't come from us
3) Faith comes from God/HS
4) In order to believe I have received this faith, I need to believe God exists
5) Therefore, if (4) is correct, I need to have faith God exists
6) Given (4) & (5) are true, I therefore need to have faith God exists so that I can believe God gave me faith so that I can believe God exists
C) There is actually no coherent conclusion as this is circular reasoning

I made that clear in the other post, only the God of the Bible gave me the faith to get started. None of the rest bothered they must not care. My faith was justified by the God who showed interest in me.

And how do you know he gave you this faith, if you previously did not believe in the entity to begin with?

Actually that is not accurate, you have knowledge the material is strong, agreed, then you say from that you can form a belief the chair will hold your weight. Now that's a big leap, you do not know the craftsman that made the chair, nor do you know his level of skill, as a woodworker I know the faith you're getting ready to exhibit will land you on your fanny. So if we follow your K/B/F then we would find ourselves sitting on a pile of sturdy material and quite embarrassed.

Err, what? The design obviously implies that it will be sturdy to achieve its function, or are you suggesting that every time you've bought a chair you've gone through the trouble of getting a hold of the maker & asking him how long he's been in the business? I find that hard to believe.

I did not assert what you said, and did not say the starting point was God exist, even though that is true. If we do not know for sure God exist before He gives us the faith to search Him out, then we do not know. As I said before it can't be unjustified faith, God gives us faith to justify our search. You're beginning to run out of excuses and need to use distraction and misdirection to keep you're argument going.

you're doing it again.

1) We do not know God exists for sure
[insert circular reasoning that I exposed further up]
2) We have to have faith God exists so that we can believe God gave us faith to know God exists
3) Therefore, our presupposed belief in God gave us faith to only just begin our search for God
C) We found God because our presupposed belief in God gave us the faith in God so that we could begin our search for God, which we found even before the search began.

...

Conclusion 2: you're being fallacious.

To receive anything from said being, you need to believe in him first... round in circles we go

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous, man needs faith to search out God, that is unless God was to appear in front of you as you desire. Salvation comes through faith for us, so if God were to appear in front of you...well were would that leave you? Your the one trying to make circles out of this, I've given you a straight line to follow with F/B/K. Check out what I said to Ryan, replacing faith with the seed in Matthew 13.

If God were to appear right in front of me, that would change absolutely nothing in terms of my free will to believe in him. How many times has the Bible said God appeared to such and such (even the fallen angels) and yet they chose not to have faith in him? Knowledge of God does not eliminate our choice to have faith in him.

This is what I've been saying, where you been, like I said it starts with God giving faith and ends with God giving knowledge, it's gifts from God and we can either accept them or reject them our choice.

...to know that you can accept this gift, you need to have unjustified faith in God to begin with, otherwise how can you accept a gift from an entity you believe doesn't exist? Circular.

Of course you didn't, because even before your "disbelief" you in fact already believed, hence why you can make such statements as "God gave me this, God gave me that".

That is plan crazy, what's the matter with you, I can make those statements only because God has given me the knowledge to understand to a small degree how He works with mankind.

To receive knowledge that God exists, you need to begin by believing he exists so that you can receive knowledge from him. Circular.

I've smuggled nothing into this, you looking for a backdoor to leave through.

If they are there then why did they not give me faith to start on a path with them, why is it the God of the Bible beat them to the action, they had many, many years to get in touch with me, I lead a secular life open to the world. I heard plenty about many different gods back then, tell me where were they when I could have been influenced. Your problem is you gave up on God and now you're ...well I guess plain ol' mad.

So that's what it's come down to? I'm angry at an entity which I believe doesn't exist? The quality of your arguments is starting to sink.

Those gods didn't have to do anything, just like your god didn't do anything. The first premise of all that you're saying is that I need to believe in your god so that I can believe I received faith from him. That is unjustified faith, which therefore means, you could have believed in any god of your liking because it is you making the irrational leap of faith that that god exists so that he can give you the faith. I can only assume Bible god "got to you first" because you happen to have been born in a town/city where Christianity thrives. This is the only rational explanation for your unjustified faith in Bible god. End of story.