God's God

[median]

You theists are also missing median's point about "global universe."

I do not think so. median has been pretty clear that he/she equates the 'global universe' with the physical universe, i.e. the universe governed by physics as we currently understand it.

...what Median refers to as "global universe" and I refer to as "Universe" encompasses the whole system:

[First Cause--->Cosmos] = "Universe" (or "global universe" in Median's terminology)

I agree with this statement. Once again it depends on what you include as part of the whole that has always existed. Median has both here and elsewhere shown no interest in exploring what could be included in the whole. You seem to, so I am responding to your comments.

This is a very peculiar, funny, and quite dishonest way of making an accusation Chad. Somehow I have "no interest in exploring what could be included in the whole"?? Where did I ever allude to not being interested in discussion regarding mere possibilities? This is another one of your dishonest dirty little tricks. You aren't arguing for anyone to "just explore" with you the "possibilities". You BELIEVE in this non-demonstrable disembodied mind and you're trying to get others to jump on board with this assertion you bought into early on (prior to ever knowing any of these sophisticated arguments such as KCA) so that, then, you can get them to believe the bible as the word of God and bring them to your idea of "salvation". So you're really not fooling anyone but yourself. People don't base their entire lives on merely what they feel are just "possibilities", or go on websites to try and defend what they feel just "might be true". Come on now. WOW.

How funny that you call yourself a Christian yet you can't (at the very least) be honest that you don't know how the universe began.

But lastly, pertaining to this 'first cause' mantra, even IF (and that's a big gigantic IF...) you could demonstrate that our local universe, which we now experience, required some 'divine mind'...WHO CARES!? It's of no consequence. This 'thing' you're attempting to point to is indistinguishable from that which does not exist. This alleged deity is invisible, silent, non-demonstrable, non-verifiable, non-falsifiable, and is wholly not checking in with anyone who "he" supposedly loves and wishes should be "saved"! This entire argument that we're 'not interested' in "exploring" whether this deity is real is based in your presupposition that there 'must be' some 'disembodied mind' behind the universe. Yet again, the real reason you accept these arguments (such as KCA), and are trying to defend them, is due to an assumption of your religion. How circular! And dishonest.

A "monotheistic god" is most commonly represented as a type of thinking, language-using, social person who engages in status-seeking among humans...demanding a monopoly on human attention and reverence.

I believe most Christians, Muslims and Jews would understand that these are anthropomorphic conventions to help us finite creatures understand the ineffable.

HA! What a blatant contradiction! Describable but ineffable. Wow. So you have 66 books by 40 different authors (the bible) supposedly written at the inspiration of God (with thousands of words describing 'him'), trying to communicate some message of who he is etc, yet this God is "ineffable"? And you can't see how irrational this is?? WHAT SPIN! Your own bible clearly blows this assertion out of the water (yet why do you believe it in the first place?). According to it God is "the logos", who created us "in his image and likeness" and who inspired the written documents to be written (supposedly) so that man can understand him and his message. That is FAR from ineffable and it just shows that you apologists (and religionists of your ilk) have no problem SPINNING and rationalizing away any point of contention which demonstrates your position as extremely flawed. Again how dishonest. It is certainly clear that you don't really care if your beliefs are actually true.