Abortions

[Violet]

At the most, the father has a right to find a surrogate. I don't see why though... the father can have 3 kids with 3 different women at the same time... should he have any say in this at all?

Because they both had part in the creation of that new life.

Thus the supplier of the wood has ownership over the carver's artwork?

I mean... it sounds kind of stupid for a rapist to claim his right to 'the child' he 'helped' 'create'.

I never even discussed rape, do not muddy the waters here, it only distracts from the topic at hand.

The scenario is 2 people engaged in consented sexual intercourse and an unwanted pregnancy came out of that. That is a scenario were both parties were equal partners with equal blame to get themselves into.

The scenario is no different. All a man does is start the formulation of a new body part within the woman's body. Perhaps they have equal blame for it having occurred in the first place because the man started the process within the woman... just as the gun seller has an equal blame for a murder taking place simply because he sold the murderer the gun?

The 'baby' is just a part of the woman's body for about 9 months, and is as much an entity as is my left ankle. To say that a 'father' has any right over the 'growing baby?' is no different than claiming rights over a woman's hand.

So you equate new life as a limb, and you don't even feel that that is a gross oversimplification of the facts?

??? I have an arm... the growing mass inside of me has an arm. I have a heart... the growing mass inside of me has a heart. My arm is a part of me... the other arm growing in my body is another part of me. My brain is a part of me... the other brain growing in my body is a part of me. The entire growing mass is growing off of me... it is just another part of me.

What is this 'new life'? I think something that has just been born is 'new life', and I most certainly don't equate that to my limb. Why not? Because now that mass that was a part of me has separated, and has become its own entity. I feel that the new baby is 'mine'... which is exactly how I would feel if my left arm became 'new life', except that my left arm is as old as I am, and I hardly consider myself 'new'. A baby is only 9 months old (or so)... so I think it is still capable of being called 'new'.

That body of the baby is 9 months old... but it has not lived until it is no longer a part of me (and capable of being called 'life', which an unborn baby is no more capable of than is my arm). Was it life until it separated from me and had an independent will? No more so than me arm.

I think this is simple... I hardly think it is oversimplified.