The ultimate question !

[CoxRox]

Maybe I am so gullible and silly (and unscientifically minded) that I view the question: 'Who made God?' as meaningless as asking:'Why does 2 plus 2 have to always equal 4?' God by His very nature MUST be immortal with no beginning otherwise he wouldn't be God so for me the question is invalid although I will try to tell you why. (By the way, some atheists or is it materialists,don't recognise the question: 'WHY do we exist?' They would say: there is no 'why' just as I would say 'God' and 'Beginning' can't be related: e.g 2+2=5 (or God + Time = Beginning) although this looks like an equation, it contains correct symbols etc, the answer is incorrect and so the equation is meaningless. My examples may be a load of crap so forgive me if they are. I'm trying to use analogies.

I have often thought about this question and talked about it. Here are some things I ponder when thinking of your question:

1. Has matter/energy always existed? If yes, then why is ITS immortality any harder to grasp or accept than a God's? (By the way, is it true that you can't get rid of matter? It breaks down into energy which is still there???)
2. If matter had a beginning it is either via a Creator, or it came into being spontaneously: 'out of thin air' at the Big Bang. If it came into being out of 'thin air' (which I can't even grasp the notion of that)- then this kind of reasoning would allow for 'anything' really!!

3. If matter (namely energy) is derived from an eternal Being (via the Holy Spirit), this Being or Force that holds everything together (via the laws of physics, etc) surely MUST be immortal with no beginning otherwise we are back to believing that it came out of 'nothing' from 'nothing'.

Matter with no beginning or God with no beginning? Hmmmmmmm..
I know you will say that believing matter has always existed is a simpler explanation to an immortal supernatural being and therefore more probable. This still allows for immortality or not having a beginning.

I do not get the silly impression that God made everything in six literal days and then got tired. That is ridiculous. (Time periods in the bible can be figurative and represent periods of time. The 'evening' 'morning' and 'day' references are to divide the periods- we know that life emerged in stages but interestingly in the SAME ORDER as Genesis very simply relates, and of course geology etc confirms that the days can't possibly be literal but represent thousands or millions of years.) Another scripture says that God always works and never rests. (John 5:17) . The 'rest' that is mentioned in Genesis has a spiritual meaning for God, but resulted in both spiritual and physical rest for us (The Sabbath previously and the future 'New Heavens and New Earth' time period). The Bible anthropomorphises God and puts Him into terms that we can relate to (I think anyway): God (Jehovah) the Father, Jesus is the Son (He is not the Father but a separate person, but shares the Father's divine nature) and the Holy Spirit is a force if you like (God's power/energy that accomplishes things. I don't think it's a person). Using words like 'son' and 'father' may well be other examples of anthropomorphism to help us understand better.

Anyway, I'm sure you will pick holes and try to demolish my 'reasonings'. If they are faulty I am prepared to be corrected....

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The only explanation theists give is that God is eternal, living outside of time. However, this also means that prayer is ineffective, since God already knows exactly what is going to happen (it can see all of time).

Adrian, we pray because we are IN time well and truly. The fact that God knows what I will pray for does in no way negate the 'need' or the reason for which I pray. Just as we cannot comprehend something not having a beginning, we cannot comprehend being outside of time of which God must be if He has no beginning. I can't comprehend a 'time' when time didn't exist (isn't that what scientists believe?). I'd liken this to trying to explain to someone born blind what a colour is.......