Positive Atheism

[Violet]

Ps. 139:7-12: God is everywhere. We cannot escape His presence.

1 Ki. 8:27:: The heavens cannot contain God.

Jer. 23:23-24: No one can hide from God. He is always near at hand. God fills the heaven and earth.

Heb. 4:13: There is no creature hidden from God's sight. All things are naked and opened to His sight.

...ah - you didn't mean the bible Sae?

@ Ps. 139:7-12... it is clearly the statement of a hyperbole. Isn't that obvious with the context?

@ Ki. 8:27... Of course they can't contain God... God is massive. But he isn't everywhere (the girl's bathroom for instance... he is rather interested in the men's room though...)

@ Jer. 23:23-24... It is quite obviously referring to God's fatherly and judicial aspects, as well as how great he is (in the context of the goat herders who correctly realized that God designed the rest of the universe simply for their astrology.

@ Heb. 4:13... Of course... the author was simply referencing that God is looking out for us 'his sight' is just a term for how he acts as our fatherly being


Of course i meant the bible, silly fr0d0

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There can be well-justified beliefs... but that also is subjective. Its a pudding that tastes different to everyone.

Every single assertion is taken by faith. Including the one I just said We arrive at the conclusion of "I like blue" by 'scaffolding' ourselves up to that position (which we hold faith in each scaffold, including "i like blue".). It is an entire chain of faith... trusting that which we believe we can trust (by justifying it).

Essentially, even the holding of faith becomes circular. Even the most basic 'law?' of our universe (logic) is not unaffected by this. Why is A=A? Because it has to be, or else we can 'know' nothing in this universe, we essentially cannot 'reasonably' function, as all things are impossible to accept. So I suppose I'm a materialistic existentialist. I recognize that we cannot ultimately know anything... but that we must construct our individually accepted subjective meanings and definitions upon what we are familiar and confident with.

I'm confident with science. A theist is confident with their god(s). Is that not the 'problem?' we atheists have with theists?

A pity for this debate, but essentially I agree on most. Accept on your use of the word faith. The word faith to me has to much connotation on the macro level of belief systems, sets of convictions on meaning on a grand scale, molten together into dogmatic fortified strongholds. That I think is not a term that aptly describes the accepting of assertions on a basic level (for instance the assertion that there is an "I" that exists). There is no intricate system of convictions involved in the assertion that I exist, I just cannot operate without it.

Basically you too come up with a practical argument to accept some assertions. As ultimately science is driven by practical arguments (which model of reality works best in terms of explanatory and predictive power). There is no logical basis for a principle like Ockham's Razor in science. It just works best.

I understand what you mean by considering 'faith' to be a reference to what I like to call "An amount of faith equivocatable to a blind warp-speed jump through a wormhole and landing ten feet to the left of where you started." For illustration: http://www.stonemakerargument.com/2.html I think that things are not simply A or B... but are A or B to degrees.

Indeed, logically you would have to exist... at least in some way or another Of course... things can exist without logic... as we can witness by most theists But perhaps our perception is so limited that we cannot see the full picture, and thus although logic could be 'perfect?': our perception of reality makes some things appear illogical.

The assertion that "I" exist makes one wonder just what "I" am... but nonetheless: there is something that "I?" am calling "Me", and it is in reference to what we perceive to be ourselves. You are right in that some things just have to be believed, or else we can't function :S

Indeed... a person can't believe something if they don't have any reasons for the truth of it (however logical or 'true'). I simply can't make myself believe that my computer is a pony... I need reason(s) so that I can just believe that my computer is a pony. Eventually all faith becomes circular because we have to have faith in simply holding faith. :S

I have my faith in science as well... as it takes but a blink of faith for me to accept science.