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Argument from evil, restated
#1
Argument from evil, restated
Thought about this while listening to a debate when the concept of the atonement was brought up.

The argument from evil is usually: Evil exists, therefore a good god cannot. I'm going to make it backwards. Atheists, bear with me, I'm going to grant a lot of premises.

If any sin is committed, no matter how insignificant, it's all the same in the eyes of God, which is because he is sin-free, 100% good, and detests evil. Yet in Isaiah 45:7 it explicitly states that he created it, and indeed, if you believe that the tree of knowledge of good and evil existed, then the concept of evil existed prior to Adam choosing it.

The point is, why would a god who detests evil also create or allow it to exist in the first place? The correct answer is, he wouldn't, regardless of giving us free will.

This also brings into question the atonement, because there need be no retribution for god since the problem originated with him in the first place.
Thinking
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Messages In This Thread
Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 21, 2013 at 3:05 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 3:13 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 3:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 21, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 21, 2013 at 7:03 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 22, 2013 at 12:44 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 21, 2013 at 11:11 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 21, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 12:40 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 21, 2013 at 3:16 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 21, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 21, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 3:59 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 5:48 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 22, 2013 at 8:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 21, 2013 at 6:17 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 21, 2013 at 6:37 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 21, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 7:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 21, 2013 at 10:37 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 21, 2013 at 11:17 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 22, 2013 at 8:32 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - May 21, 2013 at 9:32 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 11:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 1:58 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 22, 2013 at 2:17 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 2:44 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 2:18 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 22, 2013 at 2:21 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 22, 2013 at 7:56 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 2:54 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 11:20 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 23, 2013 at 8:06 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 24, 2013 at 1:35 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 24, 2013 at 5:57 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 3:55 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 4:42 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 25, 2013 at 8:22 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 22, 2013 at 8:10 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 22, 2013 at 8:41 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 22, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 22, 2013 at 7:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 22, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 22, 2013 at 7:00 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 7:25 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 22, 2013 at 9:15 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 12:34 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 23, 2013 at 2:26 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 3:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 3:59 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 23, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - May 23, 2013 at 4:09 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 5:11 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 12:28 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 8:53 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 23, 2013 at 8:58 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 10:13 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 23, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 1:04 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 23, 2013 at 1:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - May 22, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 2:10 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 23, 2013 at 9:25 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 12:02 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 2:27 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 23, 2013 at 3:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 3:45 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 3:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 3:01 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 3:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 4:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 5:46 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - May 23, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 23, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 5:50 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 23, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 23, 2013 at 11:28 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 24, 2013 at 12:12 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 12:20 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 24, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 24, 2013 at 1:03 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 24, 2013 at 2:13 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 24, 2013 at 3:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 9:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 9:43 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 24, 2013 at 11:43 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 2:54 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 24, 2013 at 2:47 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 11:16 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 11:17 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 24, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 3:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 2:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 2:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 24, 2013 at 5:05 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 6:15 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 24, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 3:36 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 3:41 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 25, 2013 at 3:44 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 5:54 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 25, 2013 at 6:12 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 6:31 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 24, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 3:25 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 3:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 11:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 11:32 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 25, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Cato - May 24, 2013 at 11:40 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 25, 2013 at 2:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 25, 2013 at 7:56 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 25, 2013 at 9:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 26, 2013 at 5:40 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 26, 2013 at 6:29 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 26, 2013 at 7:49 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 26, 2013 at 8:52 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 26, 2013 at 11:49 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 27, 2013 at 4:11 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 26, 2013 at 9:11 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 27, 2013 at 5:51 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 26, 2013 at 6:36 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 27, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - May 30, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 31, 2013 at 12:58 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - May 31, 2013 at 2:24 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 31, 2013 at 3:28 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - May 31, 2013 at 2:34 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 1, 2013 at 11:44 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 31, 2013 at 2:39 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - May 31, 2013 at 7:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 31, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - June 1, 2013 at 10:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by whatever76 - May 31, 2013 at 4:18 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 31, 2013 at 10:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by ronedee - June 1, 2013 at 12:57 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 1, 2013 at 5:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - June 1, 2013 at 6:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by ronedee - June 4, 2013 at 1:56 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 1, 2013 at 11:47 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 2, 2013 at 5:05 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 3, 2013 at 2:22 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 3, 2013 at 7:09 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 3, 2013 at 11:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2013 at 2:38 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2013 at 11:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 4, 2013 at 1:54 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - June 4, 2013 at 2:01 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by ronedee - June 4, 2013 at 2:25 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 4, 2013 at 2:33 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 3, 2013 at 11:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 4, 2013 at 2:17 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 4, 2013 at 5:57 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - June 4, 2013 at 11:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - June 4, 2013 at 6:59 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 4, 2013 at 12:40 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 4, 2013 at 7:45 pm

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