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Conflicting statements in the bible
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible
(May 23, 2013 at 6:01 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(May 22, 2013 at 8:41 pm)Sal Wrote: Nice hand-wave.
That's all an appeal to that 'dilemma' deserves because it only applies to polytheistic gods.
It's origins were between Socrates and Euthyphro discussing moral actions, but it has been a stop-gap for monotheistic religions as well ever since it was first worded with plenty of hand waves against it, From Socrates to Thomas Aquinas to William James. No theologian has been able to explain it away without a considerable effort of edifying their terms upon how they view their particular version of god.

Essentially, it's a dilemma because it makes an astute observation about the question of morality and where morals come from. Plainly stated it's:

Quote:"Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"
Source

All the "answers" to this dilemma are built upon submitting that one cannot understand god's reason for authoring morality, IOW: we're incapable of understanding god's moral authority. There's one major problem with this approach, which Aquinas missed (and several theologians have echoed throughout history) yet used: If humans are unable to understand the basis of morality of that god authors, then they're equally unable to understand the moral itself and thus it falls back to an arbitrary command.

Saying stuff like "God's nature is good" or that "God's nature is beyond reproach" just makes it a corollary regression, i.e. instead of god it's his nature that's in question, which ultimately changes nothing about where morals come from.

But really, all this hand-waving really accounts for is that people have decided beforehand what is moral and what isn't before even hearing of Euthyphro dilemma, which only elicits rationalizations by theists.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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Messages In This Thread
Conflicting statements in the bible - by Baalzebutt - April 19, 2013 at 4:48 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 19, 2013 at 5:03 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by swordwords - April 23, 2013 at 6:27 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 23, 2013 at 10:43 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Mononoke - April 19, 2013 at 5:17 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 19, 2013 at 6:30 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - April 19, 2013 at 7:17 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 19, 2013 at 8:32 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 19, 2013 at 9:35 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Plotinus - April 20, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 20, 2013 at 8:43 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 22, 2013 at 8:26 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 20, 2013 at 9:49 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 20, 2013 at 10:34 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Aedrone1 - April 20, 2013 at 10:10 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Kayenneh - April 21, 2013 at 5:56 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Gilgamesh - April 21, 2013 at 6:01 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 21, 2013 at 2:01 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by archangle - April 22, 2013 at 5:20 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 22, 2013 at 7:11 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 23, 2013 at 10:52 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 22, 2013 at 9:04 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Godschild - April 22, 2013 at 11:58 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 23, 2013 at 8:39 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Baalzebutt - April 23, 2013 at 1:57 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 22, 2013 at 9:29 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 23, 2013 at 12:00 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 23, 2013 at 1:04 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 23, 2013 at 2:13 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - April 23, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 23, 2013 at 3:15 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - April 23, 2013 at 3:41 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - April 23, 2013 at 3:53 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 23, 2013 at 5:18 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - April 24, 2013 at 8:27 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 25, 2013 at 11:40 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - April 25, 2013 at 3:01 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Baalzebutt - April 25, 2013 at 5:46 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 25, 2013 at 7:11 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 26, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 25, 2013 at 4:05 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by iameatingjam - April 28, 2013 at 7:04 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Whateverist - April 29, 2013 at 7:25 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 30, 2013 at 9:02 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Godschild - April 30, 2013 at 10:38 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 29, 2013 at 7:53 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by popeyespappy - April 23, 2013 at 6:50 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cinjin - April 24, 2013 at 2:02 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 24, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 25, 2013 at 11:45 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by justin - April 25, 2013 at 11:52 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 25, 2013 at 4:43 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 25, 2013 at 5:09 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cinjin - April 26, 2013 at 9:28 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 27, 2013 at 2:38 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - April 27, 2013 at 6:23 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 25, 2013 at 4:59 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 25, 2013 at 5:20 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 25, 2013 at 5:34 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - April 26, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 25, 2013 at 5:48 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 25, 2013 at 5:57 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 26, 2013 at 10:18 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 27, 2013 at 6:30 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 28, 2013 at 4:04 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - April 27, 2013 at 7:17 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 27, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 28, 2013 at 4:17 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by A_Nony_Mouse - April 28, 2013 at 5:08 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 28, 2013 at 4:30 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - May 1, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tex - April 28, 2013 at 5:13 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Godschild - April 30, 2013 at 2:17 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Gabriel Syme - April 30, 2013 at 11:31 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - April 30, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - April 30, 2013 at 4:33 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - April 30, 2013 at 5:09 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - April 30, 2013 at 5:35 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - April 30, 2013 at 8:17 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 30, 2013 at 1:29 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - April 30, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Godschild - May 1, 2013 at 11:56 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 2, 2013 at 10:20 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 2, 2013 at 11:45 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 2, 2013 at 12:14 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - May 2, 2013 at 11:39 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 2, 2013 at 1:00 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 2, 2013 at 1:19 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 3, 2013 at 8:08 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 5, 2013 at 2:32 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by ThomM - May 2, 2013 at 4:19 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Godschild - May 2, 2013 at 11:39 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 10, 2013 at 8:09 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - May 10, 2013 at 11:56 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - May 11, 2013 at 12:15 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - May 20, 2013 at 12:56 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by John V - May 20, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by ThomM - May 20, 2013 at 6:45 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Sal - May 21, 2013 at 5:37 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - May 22, 2013 at 2:50 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - May 22, 2013 at 8:55 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - May 30, 2013 at 12:47 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 3, 2013 at 7:29 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Colanth - May 30, 2013 at 10:47 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - May 31, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - May 30, 2013 at 7:00 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by archangle - May 28, 2013 at 10:24 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Sal - May 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Sal - May 22, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Sal - May 24, 2013 at 12:40 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Sal - May 24, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - May 23, 2013 at 10:38 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - May 28, 2013 at 11:59 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cato - May 28, 2013 at 5:37 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cato - May 28, 2013 at 6:22 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cato - May 28, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 3, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 5, 2013 at 10:14 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 6, 2013 at 10:36 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 10, 2013 at 11:04 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 12, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - June 12, 2013 at 7:15 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - June 12, 2013 at 7:31 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cato - June 12, 2013 at 8:01 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Ryantology - June 12, 2013 at 8:08 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - June 13, 2013 at 5:10 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - June 13, 2013 at 5:26 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - June 13, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - June 13, 2013 at 5:57 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 15, 2013 at 1:45 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - June 13, 2013 at 5:41 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 17, 2013 at 11:58 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Brakeman - June 6, 2013 at 7:15 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Brakeman - June 8, 2013 at 9:49 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Brakeman - June 8, 2013 at 6:19 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - June 12, 2013 at 12:21 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - June 12, 2013 at 7:50 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Psykhronic - June 13, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Psykhronic - June 13, 2013 at 5:42 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Golbez - June 13, 2013 at 11:37 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Foxaèr - June 15, 2013 at 6:45 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by shoestring - June 16, 2013 at 8:19 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by littleendian - June 17, 2013 at 12:02 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 18, 2013 at 5:52 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 18, 2013 at 10:16 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cato - June 18, 2013 at 11:11 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 19, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 19, 2013 at 8:29 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 24, 2013 at 8:41 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 21, 2013 at 8:14 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 24, 2013 at 8:26 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Cyberman - June 24, 2013 at 6:50 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 25, 2013 at 12:59 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Brian37 - June 25, 2013 at 7:53 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Tonus - June 26, 2013 at 9:13 am
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 26, 2013 at 2:41 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 27, 2013 at 12:58 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Savannahw - June 18, 2013 at 6:21 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Bad Writer - June 26, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - June 27, 2013 at 6:22 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Bad Writer - June 27, 2013 at 7:57 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by Minimalist - June 27, 2013 at 8:07 pm
RE: Conflicting statements in the bible - by smax - June 27, 2013 at 9:18 pm

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