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Argument from evil, restated
RE: Argument from evil, restated
(May 31, 2013 at 2:39 am)Undeceived Wrote: Delighted to meet you, Zarith.


(May 30, 2013 at 9:14 pm)Zarith Wrote: If god desires for people to choose to love him, then why is there an expiration date on this offer? Surely if hell existed, it would be filled with people who would make a different choice if given one more chance. Don't you think?

Yes, they'd want to be in heaven. But they'd choose heaven for pleasure, not for God. Desiring something, no matter how much, cannot persuade you to love somebody. If a millionaire told you, "Love me and I'll give you a car," could you do it? You might love the car, but not the man. It is impossible to love someone who is a means (of instrumental value) and not an end (destination). If God is not an end in your life right now, the offer of a different end won't change anything. God said, "Have no other gods before me." If you value heaven above God, you cannot inherit heaven.

That's a doosie of a theist response! I'm going to save that one.

So according to your theory, the threat of hell doesn't unduly influence you while you are alive, but after your heart beats the last time, boom! Hell is suddenly too real to allow you to love.

So If I tell a girl on the street to love me or else I will put her in my basement and burn her with matches, she might actually love me, but once I get her down there and strapped down, she's just saying that she loves me to avoid the pain. OK.. Nothing creepy about that..

God is the millionaire who says "love me and I'll give you a car" (heaven). But you have to agree to love him before you get to see the car. Why does the sight of the car or the sight (via death) of the punishment (Hell) matter with the promise (threat)?
Find the cure for Fundementia!
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Messages In This Thread
Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 21, 2013 at 3:05 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 3:13 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 3:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 21, 2013 at 7:23 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 21, 2013 at 7:03 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 22, 2013 at 12:44 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 21, 2013 at 11:11 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 21, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 12:40 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 21, 2013 at 3:16 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 21, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 21, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 3:59 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 5:48 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 22, 2013 at 8:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 21, 2013 at 6:17 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 21, 2013 at 6:37 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 21, 2013 at 6:54 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 21, 2013 at 7:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 21, 2013 at 10:37 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 21, 2013 at 11:17 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 22, 2013 at 8:32 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - May 21, 2013 at 9:32 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 21, 2013 at 11:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 1:58 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 22, 2013 at 2:17 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 2:44 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 2:18 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Minimalist - May 22, 2013 at 2:21 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 22, 2013 at 7:56 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 2:54 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 11:20 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 23, 2013 at 8:06 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 24, 2013 at 1:35 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 24, 2013 at 5:57 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 3:55 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 4:42 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 25, 2013 at 8:22 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 22, 2013 at 8:10 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 22, 2013 at 8:41 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 22, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 22, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 22, 2013 at 7:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 22, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 22, 2013 at 7:00 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 22, 2013 at 7:25 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 22, 2013 at 9:15 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 12:34 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 23, 2013 at 2:26 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 3:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 3:59 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 23, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - May 23, 2013 at 4:09 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 5:11 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 12:28 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 8:53 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 23, 2013 at 8:58 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 10:13 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 23, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 1:04 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 23, 2013 at 1:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - May 22, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 2:10 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 23, 2013 at 9:25 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 12:02 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 2:27 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 3:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 23, 2013 at 3:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 23, 2013 at 3:45 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 23, 2013 at 3:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 3:01 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 3:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 3:48 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 4:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 4:45 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 23, 2013 at 5:46 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - May 23, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 23, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 23, 2013 at 5:50 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Raven - May 23, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 23, 2013 at 7:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 23, 2013 at 11:28 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 24, 2013 at 12:12 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 12:20 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 24, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 24, 2013 at 1:03 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 1:28 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 24, 2013 at 2:13 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 24, 2013 at 3:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 9:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 9:43 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 24, 2013 at 11:43 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 2:54 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 24, 2013 at 2:47 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 11:16 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 11:17 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 24, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 3:07 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 2:30 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 2:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 24, 2013 at 5:05 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 6:15 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Praetorian - May 24, 2013 at 6:08 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Drich - May 24, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 3:36 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 3:41 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 25, 2013 at 3:44 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 5:03 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 5:54 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 25, 2013 at 6:12 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 24, 2013 at 6:31 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 24, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 25, 2013 at 3:25 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 25, 2013 at 3:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 24, 2013 at 11:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 24, 2013 at 11:32 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Neo-Scholastic - May 25, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Cato - May 24, 2013 at 11:40 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - May 25, 2013 at 2:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 25, 2013 at 7:56 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by FallentoReason - May 25, 2013 at 9:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 26, 2013 at 5:40 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 26, 2013 at 6:29 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 26, 2013 at 7:49 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 26, 2013 at 8:52 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Origen - May 26, 2013 at 10:32 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Esquilax - May 26, 2013 at 11:49 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 27, 2013 at 4:11 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 26, 2013 at 9:11 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by John V - May 27, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by little_monkey - May 27, 2013 at 4:21 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - May 27, 2013 at 5:51 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 26, 2013 at 6:36 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - May 27, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - May 30, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 31, 2013 at 12:58 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - May 31, 2013 at 2:24 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 31, 2013 at 3:28 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - May 31, 2013 at 2:34 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 1, 2013 at 11:44 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 31, 2013 at 2:39 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - May 31, 2013 at 7:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - May 31, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - June 1, 2013 at 10:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by whatever76 - May 31, 2013 at 4:18 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Godschild - May 31, 2013 at 10:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by ronedee - June 1, 2013 at 12:57 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 1, 2013 at 5:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by pocaracas - June 1, 2013 at 6:14 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by ronedee - June 4, 2013 at 1:56 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 1, 2013 at 11:47 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 2, 2013 at 5:05 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 3, 2013 at 2:22 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 3, 2013 at 7:09 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 3, 2013 at 11:20 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2013 at 2:38 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2013 at 11:39 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 4, 2013 at 1:54 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Ryantology - June 4, 2013 at 2:01 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by ronedee - June 4, 2013 at 2:25 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 4, 2013 at 2:33 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 3, 2013 at 11:55 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Undeceived - June 4, 2013 at 2:17 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 4, 2013 at 5:57 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Sal - June 4, 2013 at 11:34 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Brakeman - June 4, 2013 at 6:59 am
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by The Grand Nudger - June 4, 2013 at 12:40 pm
RE: Argument from evil, restated - by Zarith - June 4, 2013 at 7:45 pm

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