Positive Atheism

[rjh4 is back]

I understand you were not trying to say "This is why you should believe" but you are sharing your reasons and this is a public forum.

I wasn’t really sharing reasons. I was responding to Rhizo’s comment about stuggling to “maintain a belief in something that doesn’t make sense”.

If you're not prepared for criticism then don't say it.

I am prepared for criticism. I just think yours was misplaced in this case.

Your analogy to abiogenesis fails because this isn't the result of what "makes sense" but honest scientific inquiry with rigorous skepticism. And I have never stated Scientists affirm that it is definitely how the first organism came to be and holds all those answers. There's still a lot to study there.

After reading it again, I agree my analogy was not a good one. I was just trying to point out that what you said to me also applies to you.

We can't accept everything as true based on our ability to understand it.

True.

There are things I cannot comprehend. Physics (beyond the basics) doesn't make sense to me, but I accept it because it's demonstrably true in the results it produces.

I think you are equating “understand” with “make sense” here and I do not think they are equatable. I would argue that while you might not “understand” advanced physics, it “makes sense” to you because of the results it produces.

In layman's terms, yes, we do attempt to "make sense" of things, but we need to be careful that we're not ignoring good scientific explanations just because we cannot grasp the nitty gritty details.

I would agree with this to a degree. But remember…I have a different set of presuppositions than you. You seem to take science and the scientific method as the basis for all “truth”. Therefore, it seems like the consensus of scientists govern what you think is “true”. I take God and the Bible as the basis for “truth”. So where scientists come to some conclusion that conflicts with the Bible, I still believe the Bible.

I was not making that fallacy, however, I was not clear in my use of the word honestly. I did not mean with some specific perspective, I meant that you truthfully have read the bible. Many Christians will feel that reading a Bible passage along with a pastor at Sunday Mass followed by his homily is a sufficient reading of the Bible. I grew up Catholic, we did not stress reading the Bible. The Bible was only read when a passage was chosen at church or school followed by prepared interpretations. That's not honestly reading the Bible.

Reading the Bible in it's entirety is what I meant. Which I am in the process of doing. It doesn't even have to be in order, in fact it's better not to because then you can miss some stuff if you just read cover to cover, but reading cover to cover is better than just reading selected passages.

I clearly misunderstood what you were saying. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I have read the Bible completely two time and the entire NT several more times.

Okay, so you think I just go with some scholars where you go with others. That's the best answer you have?

That was not my answer, that was my conclusion.

This book is the supposed infallible word of God, if that were the case couldn't you easily refute me?

To whose satisfaction? To yours? No.

Should I not even be able to show these blatant contradictions that put the existence of Jesus, the claim son of God in serious doubt?

Those things may put the existence of Jesus and His claim as the son of God in serious doubt for you but not me.

You claim you have done honest questioning of the Bible and Christianity, which rightly stated I can't refute, yet everything you state suggests otherwise.

Sure sounds like you are saying that only those that have searched and come to agree with you have done “honest questioning”. Again, similar to the True Scotsman Fallacy.

I put that post up looking for an honest debate on this issue, which never came, and this is the only response I've been given from you, when I had even posted it in response to a question you had asked in the first place.

I merely asked a question. You responded with your post. I was not looking to debate. Sorry to have disappointed you.

If you don't care to refute the argument put forth, I can only speculate that you can't.

Speculate all you like.