Childhood indoctrination

[littleendian]

I'm sorry, I don't have time to read the next 6 pages (I'm on page 29) - but does anyone point out that lil and forb make the case that nutrients CAN be gotten from the soil, but not that such a way of farming can actually sustainably feed all the people in the world?

Why do vegans never address this?

That's the point I personally find the most convincing case against veganism presented here so far. There's a book discussing this (I think mentioned by Kichi) which is on my to-read list.

I cannot prove that a world population of 7 billion vegans could actually be supported by the planet. Not all that grows on the planet can be digested by humans and requires ruminant animals to be made available to human digestion. Will enough grow to feed everyone without animal agriculture? I don't think anybody knows. However there is reason to believe that at least where I live there is an abundance of fertile land that could certainly be used to feed the local population comfortably. There is no reason to assume that the vast lands dedicated to soy and corn production couldn't be converted to grow crops digestible by humans. Prices would go up, at least at first, and it would require fundamental changes in our food production methods, no doubt. I don't propose veganism would work if everyone started the same day, it's a gradual process.

Why does that uncertainty not convince me that I can finally have that juicy steak again? Because in the face of gruelling complexities that I have no hope of completely understanding, I choose to take the naive point of view, as close as I can get to that of a child: What are the direct consequences of my actions that I can see, here and now, if I look? Basically: Someone gets killed, and if I didn't raise the animal myself I can never rule out that the animal didn't suffer in life and slaughter. I'm afraid of death and suffering, so I won't deal it out on others without a much better reason than my appetite for meat or because there is a remaining uncertainty about whether my lifestyle lives up to Kant's categorical imperative.

Additionally, I see veganism as a tiny, personal form of activism and protest against the terrible crime of todays CAFOs and mega-slaughterhouses and against the view of animals as a product. Even though I sometimes failed to prove this in the present discussion, for which I'm ashamed, I see it as my contribution to a more compassate world. Only restricting myself to "clean" meat isn't a strong enough statement to me. Basically I think Kichi has a point when she draws parallels to religion, it gives me a purpose in life. However I arrived at this myself, through my own two eyes and my own heart, so I refuse that veganism is a replacement-dogma to me.