From atheism to tentative agnosticism

[Inigo]

I don't think that the hair's breath difference between Atheism and the Agnostic position that you've arrived at is worth much. You seem like a rational sort, you are against religion, which is the real problem in this world. Not a big deal for me.

Hmm, but atheism is false if even one god exists. I'm anti religion because, well, religious people are not interested in reason and evidence. But being pro reason and evidence does not seem to me to lead to atheism at the mo.

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Atheism is not the view that there are no god. Some proportion of individual atheists may indeed subscribe to that view, but there is nothing in atheism that proposes or requires it. Atheism is simply the response to theism, that theistic claims have not met their burden of proof.

As to the morality thing, echoing pablo's comments: wouldn't it be useful if any supposed supernatural outside agency instructing on our morals at least made sure that the instructions are consistent? Yet different cultures throughout history have had their own ideas about what constitutes a moral way of life. That's sort of why the Commandments were supposedly concocted, because clearly nobody before Charlton Heston's time managed to figure out that murder wasn't really a nice thing to do. No, I don't pretend that happened either, but the point still remains.

It doesn't really matter what one labels a view, what matters are the arguments that can be mustered for it. I think it is a shame that so many debates get sidetracked into tedious semantic discussions about what exactly terms like 'atheist' mean.

I use the term 'atheism' to refer to the view that no god or gods exist. I use the term 'atheist' to refer to someone who believes atheism to be true. This is how everyone I've met uses those terms as well. But, well, it is what I understand by them. If someone means something else then they're welcome to use the term to mean whatever they like.

I would understand the term 'theist' to refer to someone who believed in the Judaeo Christian god, but perhaps I'm wrong about that. I think it would be unusual for someone who believed in, say, Thor to describe themselves as an 'atheist'. So I assume atheism - as currently used - does not refer to the view merely that no theistic god exists, but that no supernatural agencies of any kind exist. I think that's how Dennett and Dawkins etc would use the term.

But anyway, it does not really matter.