Determinism Is Self Defeating

[Zen Badger]

Ummm, no I don't.

The simple fact that emergent systems are unpredictable implies a non-deterministic universe.

Your turn.

My turn? Well, I'll have to replay a hand that I've already played. You're confusing determinism with predictability.

In all likelihood, in order to predict everything in the universe, you'd need a computer the size of the universe... which would itself have to be included in the predictability calculations. Being able to predict something is not a primary concern of the truth of determinism.

Let's imagine that we have 2 neighbouring rooms. In each is a table. On each table there is a Newton's Cradle. They are both set in motion and the doors of the rooms are closed. In one room there is also a cat.

You seem to imagine that determinism can only happen in the room with the cat, because it is sentient and (after observing what is happening) it can predict that each end ball will raise when it's opposite number lands.

Both rooms experience determinism. Prediction not required.

Your turn.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear......

In order for YOU to prove that determinism is true, YOU need to be able to make 100% accurate predictions. Until these conditions are met determinism is only a hypothesis. This is known as "science".

At no point have I suggested that determinism requires sentient beings to function.