Determinism Is Self Defeating

[Zen Badger]

Fucking stupid......

Why? Because I hold determinism to the same standards of scientific rigour as other theories?

So be it then, I'm fucking stupid then.

But you are the one who first resorted to personal attacks when you couldn't prove your point( calling Koolay stupid)'

Suddenly, that's a matter that is under dispute?

You still haven't answered my questions.

And, if scientific rigour is at the heart of all of this, you must also believe that there's a giant teapot orbiting the Earth. I mean... we haven't proven it not to be true, so it must be true.

Suddenly?
That is what I've been saying all along.

However, based on the the evidence that has been presented so far, I've drawn the conclusion that you are in fact only interested in being an argumentative ass and not in reasonable and informed debate.

So therefore I'm putting you on ignore.

Goodbye asshole

---

]

If indeterminism is true, then how can we verify it?
Why is it that indeterminists only pick cases where the system is so complex that no computer available today could hold the geometry of that system, let alone process how it works?
For any simple enough system, we can develop even simpler models that can be computed and the results of such computations approximate extremely well the observed behavior of that system. This is a horizontal observation from the tiniest of systems to the largest.... they can be determined, provided the models used are valid. (electron orbits around nucleus; planets/comet orbits around stars)

But we don't have to go to the whole universe in order to disprove determinism.

Think of the simplest system imaginable, flipping a coin.

You know all of the initial conditions and there are only two possible outcomes( discounting the direction the coin will be facing when It comes to rest)

Yet there is no equation you can write which will predict the outcome to better than 50%, even modelling it will yield no better.

Now flip that coin a thousand times and accurately predict the outcome of every single coin toss.

And then figure in the direction the coin will be facing each time, there's another 360 variables you need to figure into your equation.

See my point now?

Even if the universe is deterministic it is an unprovable hypothesis.

But there is plenty of reason to believe that the universe is chaotic.

As an aside, modelling a system is not a prediction, it is simply running a simulation to see what the outcome will be.