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Current time: May 26, 2024, 4:28 am

Poll: The problem with Christianity lies in...
This poll is closed.
Christ Himself
2.70%
1 2.70%
Christians
40.54%
15 40.54%
Both of them
56.76%
21 56.76%
Total 37 vote(s) 100%
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Unconventional Religion
#35
RE: Unconventional Religion
(July 30, 2013 at 11:26 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Neither had Mark or Luke. Both were companions of Paul and Luke introduces his Gospel with a flat denial that he was a witness but rather compiled the account. And all this is assuming that they were the authors of the books in question.
Paul was addressing issues that rose up in his churches. He didn't have a reason to dig up accounts of Christ's life. Mark felt it was necessary to do so for his church's specific needs, along with Luke. Their Gospels are assumed to have multiple authors who probably weren't them.
Quote:As for Paul, he was the chief prosecutor for the Jews and had his conversion experience only a few years after the crucifixion of Jesus. I would think he would have witnessed such a grand execution that involved the rabbis meeting on Passover Eve in order to get rid of this troublemaker.
Paul was indeed a Pharisee, but I don't believe he was in Jerusalem at the time of Christ's death. His hometown was Tarsus in Cilicia, and he volunteered to exterminate the Christian sect, not Christ himself. If he had in fact met Christ face to face, he would have claimed so in one of his life stories. It seems like an evangelical goldmine.
Quote:The tale got better with the telling.
Or details of it were slightly altered or cut out as time went on and motives changed.
Quote:Jesus was alone when praying at the Garden of Gethsemane, so no need for posing there.
36 Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to His disciples, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed. 38 Then He *said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me.” Matthew 26:36-38
Even John has Jesus pray at the end of his discourse to the disciples in John 17, ending the speech that he began at John 14, right after predicting Peter's denial during the Last Supper.
Quote:Jesus is God and not God at the same time, depending on the needs of the story at that moment. When Jesus is praying at Gethsemane, that's when he's not God. When he's forgiving sins, that's when he is God. Flip, flop, flip, flop.
Jesus' life was written through the eyes of his disciples. His messianic secret wasn't given plainly, so he would hint it by his actions. Many Gospels progress as this secret is revealed in the "Who do you say that I am?" scene.
Quote:But the madness of the Trinity is really exposed when we have to ask why a god would need to be his own intercessor with himself. If Jesus is God, there is no intercessor because he is the god you are trying to contact. If Jesus is not God, Christianity violates the 1st Commandment (in addition to Commandment #4, since the Sabbath is Saturday).
Fully God, fully man. He is where both meet. Divine goodness reveals itself to fallen humanity for the purpose of bringing fallen humanity to divine goodness. He became what we are to make us what he is. He is the path to salvation. And so on.
Quote:The OT god was not out of reach for the faithful and an intercessor, according to Yahweh, was neither necessary nor desired.
In the OT, God was only with the Jews and among them, only the priests. Christ was God's revelation to the world.
"No other gods" does not mean no intercessor. An intercessor is both God and man.
"because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors."
Isaiah 53:12
Quote:Jesus didn't advertise a new God.
A new way to serve the same God. Jesus was openly Jewish, and sought to reform the religion rather than establish his own.
Quote:You can assume the existence of all kinds of supernatural things that "just so happen" to resemble the natural source of their inspiration.

Symbols are very important to the Bible. A fiery Hell with maggots, God having a throne and a rod and a right hand side, winged messengers, are all part of Judeo-Christian mythology, I guess you can call it. All have been evolved from traditional notions to suit the culture.
God is a spirit, angels are spirits, and Hell is a spiritual "location" (more like a state of being). If our physical bodies burned in fire after we died, Hell would have geographical coordinates. Just because the Jews used cultural influences to describe their God on a throne does not mean he has one. God does not need an independent physical description to be original, because any description of him would be wrong, simply because he cannot be described.

(July 31, 2013 at 6:12 am)genkaus Wrote: Killing your would-be murderer.
Stealing from a thief.
Saving yourself from a burning building and strangers behind.
Spending money on a new house rather than feeding starving kids in Africa.

I could go on.
Self-defense.
The possessions you take would be yours. If they aren't, the person doing so is a child who thinks it's OK because "He did it too."
Dying for them would be noble, but you only need to do as much as you are able. Or do we speak bad of those who sacrifice themselves for others? What about the atheists in foxholes?
Finally:
"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required." Luke 12:48
"For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: but by an equality." Corinthians 8:13-14
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 26, 2013 at 8:24 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 26, 2013 at 8:43 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 26, 2013 at 9:11 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 26, 2013 at 9:28 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by ronedee - July 26, 2013 at 10:03 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 26, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Rahul - July 26, 2013 at 11:56 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Minimalist - July 26, 2013 at 12:28 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Faith No More - July 26, 2013 at 1:22 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 26, 2013 at 2:09 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Rahul - July 26, 2013 at 3:43 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 27, 2013 at 8:05 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 27, 2013 at 10:15 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 27, 2013 at 10:51 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 29, 2013 at 9:21 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 29, 2013 at 2:09 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 30, 2013 at 6:28 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 30, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by ronedee - July 31, 2013 at 11:51 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 29, 2013 at 4:18 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 29, 2013 at 3:19 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 29, 2013 at 3:28 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 29, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 30, 2013 at 5:25 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 30, 2013 at 6:34 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 31, 2013 at 5:33 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 5:52 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 30, 2013 at 8:34 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 31, 2013 at 5:55 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 6:12 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 31, 2013 at 10:57 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 30, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 31, 2013 at 7:11 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 8:05 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - July 31, 2013 at 11:07 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by ronedee - August 2, 2013 at 10:29 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Faith No More - August 2, 2013 at 11:55 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Minimalist - August 4, 2013 at 6:57 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by DeistPaladin - September 6, 2013 at 10:25 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by max-greece - July 30, 2013 at 9:16 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by max-greece - July 30, 2013 at 11:34 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by littleendian - July 31, 2013 at 8:17 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 31, 2013 at 8:24 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 8:41 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 31, 2013 at 8:50 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 9:04 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by The Reality Salesman - July 31, 2013 at 10:16 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by The Magic Pudding - July 31, 2013 at 9:23 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 31, 2013 at 10:59 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 11:02 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - July 31, 2013 at 11:59 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by max-greece - July 31, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 1, 2013 at 2:27 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 1, 2013 at 6:11 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 4, 2013 at 4:28 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 4, 2013 at 6:21 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Angrboda - August 1, 2013 at 7:37 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Faith No More - August 1, 2013 at 10:26 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 1:31 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by The Reality Salesman - July 31, 2013 at 11:15 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Rahul - July 31, 2013 at 12:09 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by The Reality Salesman - July 31, 2013 at 1:43 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Angrboda - July 31, 2013 at 2:32 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 4, 2013 at 6:41 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 4, 2013 at 7:00 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 4, 2013 at 7:25 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 4, 2013 at 7:36 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 4, 2013 at 10:22 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 5, 2013 at 6:22 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Anomalocaris - August 4, 2013 at 7:45 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 5, 2013 at 8:22 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 5, 2013 at 9:15 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 5, 2013 at 9:53 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 5, 2013 at 10:08 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 5, 2013 at 11:13 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 5, 2013 at 11:46 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 5, 2013 at 10:29 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 6, 2013 at 5:53 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 6, 2013 at 7:20 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 6, 2013 at 9:09 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 6, 2013 at 7:30 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 7, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 7, 2013 at 4:04 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 7, 2013 at 5:56 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 7, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 7, 2013 at 8:18 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 8, 2013 at 4:26 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 8, 2013 at 9:12 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 8, 2013 at 10:47 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 8, 2013 at 11:26 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 9, 2013 at 2:20 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 9, 2013 at 9:21 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 9, 2013 at 4:18 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 10, 2013 at 1:14 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 10, 2013 at 4:08 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 10, 2013 at 4:21 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 10, 2013 at 7:09 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 10, 2013 at 7:27 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 10, 2013 at 8:17 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 10, 2013 at 8:42 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Justtristo - August 7, 2013 at 5:03 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 11, 2013 at 10:55 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 11, 2013 at 11:30 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 11, 2013 at 2:25 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Chas - August 11, 2013 at 2:36 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 11, 2013 at 3:45 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 11, 2013 at 6:52 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 11, 2013 at 11:33 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Whateverist - August 12, 2013 at 1:23 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 12, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Whateverist - August 15, 2013 at 3:14 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 17, 2013 at 8:40 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 18, 2013 at 7:01 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 18, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Bad Wolf - August 18, 2013 at 4:10 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 19, 2013 at 11:16 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Whateverist - August 18, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 18, 2013 at 5:32 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Bad Wolf - August 18, 2013 at 6:15 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Whateverist - August 19, 2013 at 11:31 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 24, 2013 at 10:29 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 25, 2013 at 12:24 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 25, 2013 at 3:41 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 25, 2013 at 10:50 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 26, 2013 at 1:13 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 26, 2013 at 3:48 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 15, 2013 at 9:59 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - August 12, 2013 at 2:05 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 11, 2013 at 3:17 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 11, 2013 at 4:04 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - August 11, 2013 at 6:32 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 11, 2013 at 6:38 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Edwardo Piet - August 18, 2013 at 7:05 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - September 2, 2013 at 1:17 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - September 2, 2013 at 2:05 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by MindForgedManacle - September 2, 2013 at 2:35 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - September 2, 2013 at 7:43 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - September 2, 2013 at 10:44 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by ronedee - September 3, 2013 at 12:08 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - September 3, 2013 at 4:33 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - September 3, 2013 at 5:08 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Minimalist - September 3, 2013 at 12:23 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by ronedee - September 3, 2013 at 1:08 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Esquilax - September 3, 2013 at 9:53 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by CapnAwesome - September 3, 2013 at 12:25 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Minimalist - September 3, 2013 at 2:44 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by ronedee - September 3, 2013 at 12:36 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Brakeman - September 3, 2013 at 12:51 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by ronedee - September 3, 2013 at 12:55 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - September 3, 2013 at 8:35 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - September 3, 2013 at 10:32 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - September 4, 2013 at 3:00 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - September 4, 2013 at 3:08 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Bad Wolf - September 3, 2013 at 9:32 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Brian37 - September 3, 2013 at 12:49 pm
RE: Unconventional Religion - by Consilius - September 5, 2013 at 3:36 am
RE: Unconventional Religion - by genkaus - September 5, 2013 at 3:52 am



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