RE: Proving God Existence
August 22, 2013 at 1:21 pm
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2013 at 1:57 pm by David Sims.)
(March 18, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: 2. S1 has infinite no. of elementsWhy can't the contrary be made true by abandoning the insistence on one-second intervals and then allowing the ticks to come at an arbitrarily high rate? In that case the number of elements can be made to approach infinity as the interval between ticks approaches zero.
False, as it contradicts with the definition of Set 1; it has only Statuses separated by a finite number of seconds so it must have a finite No. of elements.
(March 18, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: 3. S1 is finite & S2≠ɸYour conclusion that S1 cannot be finite depends on a definition of time that is independent of thermodynamics. It's generally agreed among physicists that the most meaningful definition of time, and the definition that gives to time its future-pointing arrow, is the thermodynamic definition. The rate at which the ticks of that sort of time come depends on the rate at which changes in the universe's themodynamic state occur. As the universe ages, that rate will lessen until it reaches zero, when the universe is in a state of heat death. If you were to continue measuring time by seconds of invariant length, then there would come a last point, beyond which the next thermodynamic event would be an eternity away.
False: it means that Set 1 has a last point where next points are away by an infinite time/seconds, but as the next point is separated by an extra 1 second, that point does not exist
(March 18, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Then to prove the necessity for a creatorMore properly, G is everything in existence which is not in the universe. G need not be singular. G may be plural. G may be infinite.
Assuming that Existence E=U+G where U is the universe and G is another object/deity (which can be 0 )
(E = Existence, U=Known Universe, G=something external to the universe)
According to Axiom 1; the universe states are dynamic not constant
As the universe is part of the existence (or all of it) then Existence is dynamic as well (i.e. can be represented by a function)
E(t)=U(t)+G
(March 18, 2013 at 6:07 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The correct formula should be E(t,p)=T U(t)+G(p); p is another parameter that changes the states of GThat's almost right. Time, t, measures rates of change within our universe, and there will be other metrics for changes in parts of existence apart from our universe. However, there need not be only one such other metric. There is no reason for the part of existence apart from our universe to be singular. To suppose that to be the case is to impose on our universe the status of a special category, and that is a status that it might easily not possess.
Rather,
E(t,p[i=1..∞]) = U(t) + Σ(i=1,∞) Gᵢ(pᵢ)
where each pᵢ is a parameter that changes the states of Gᵢ.
What I mean to say is that the dichotomy between "our universe" and "elsewhere" is probably not correct. Rather, it would more parsimonious to suppose that our universe is one of many, all of which may have formed in the same manner (by the same mechanism) without necessarily having arrived at the same internal nature. There would, in that case, be nowhere special for a god to be. And if a godless mechanism for the genesis of universes can be found, then there won't be any REASON for a god to be.
I refer, here, to my discussion "On Humans, Universes, Gods, and Existence" at
http://atheistforums.org/thread-20525.html