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Pleasure and Joy
#98
RE: Pleasure and Joy
(September 2, 2013 at 11:35 am)genkaus Wrote: Yes, it is causally relevant.
Thank you for answering the question. Your answer helps me address your theory more directly. In order to be causally relevant the subjective experience must fall within the causal chain as follows:

brain-state ---> feeling ---> behaviour.

But that is not what you propose, which is this:

brain-state/feeling ---> behaviour

For any given instance of consciousness, you have a third-party observable property, a brain-state for example, causing another third-party observable behaviour. But you also have a second property, the first-person subjective feelings associated with the brain-state also causing the observable behaviour. Your theory makes two causes, one subjective and one objective, responsible for one effect.

You have one thing, an instance of consciousness. It has two properties. The first is a physical brain-state. The second property is feeling. Which property is necessary and which is accidental? You must choose.
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Messages In This Thread
Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - May 8, 2013 at 2:11 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Silver - May 8, 2013 at 2:50 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - May 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by littleendian - May 21, 2013 at 7:54 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Baalzebutt - May 8, 2013 at 2:51 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Angrboda - May 8, 2013 at 5:54 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - May 21, 2013 at 10:05 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Tonus - May 21, 2013 at 10:14 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 24, 2013 at 11:46 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 24, 2013 at 2:35 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 25, 2013 at 7:07 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Fidel_Castronaut - August 31, 2013 at 8:11 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 25, 2013 at 7:19 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 26, 2013 at 1:09 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 26, 2013 at 2:16 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 26, 2013 at 6:50 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 25, 2013 at 1:58 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Walking Void - August 25, 2013 at 9:04 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by freedomfromforum - August 25, 2013 at 12:40 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 26, 2013 at 7:54 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 26, 2013 at 8:21 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 26, 2013 at 11:58 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 27, 2013 at 5:11 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 27, 2013 at 10:06 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 27, 2013 at 10:31 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 27, 2013 at 4:31 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Bad Writer - August 27, 2013 at 8:46 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 27, 2013 at 11:32 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 31, 2013 at 7:07 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 31, 2013 at 10:23 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 31, 2013 at 5:41 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 6, 2013 at 3:49 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 7, 2013 at 2:38 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 7, 2013 at 2:21 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 7, 2013 at 2:40 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 28, 2013 at 1:46 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 28, 2013 at 4:27 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 31, 2013 at 7:18 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Esquilax - August 31, 2013 at 8:19 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 6, 2013 at 4:13 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 7, 2013 at 2:47 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 7, 2013 at 2:50 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 7, 2013 at 2:54 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 9, 2013 at 4:08 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 9, 2013 at 4:11 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Fidel_Castronaut - September 7, 2013 at 5:34 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 7, 2013 at 1:56 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 7, 2013 at 3:45 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 9, 2013 at 3:47 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 9, 2013 at 3:51 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 9, 2013 at 5:10 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 12, 2013 at 1:33 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 12, 2013 at 3:54 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 15, 2013 at 7:52 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 15, 2013 at 10:17 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 15, 2013 at 4:18 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 15, 2013 at 1:18 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 25, 2013 at 12:40 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Zazzy - September 25, 2013 at 1:08 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 27, 2013 at 8:27 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 12, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 31, 2013 at 11:05 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 7, 2013 at 1:51 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 7, 2013 at 2:52 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 9, 2013 at 4:41 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by FifthElement - September 1, 2013 at 12:23 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - August 27, 2013 at 1:27 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Ryantology - August 28, 2013 at 8:54 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 28, 2013 at 9:37 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Captain Colostomy - August 28, 2013 at 9:54 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 28, 2013 at 11:06 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Bad Writer - August 28, 2013 at 11:21 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Esquilax - August 29, 2013 at 4:21 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Anomalocaris - August 29, 2013 at 11:01 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Silver - August 29, 2013 at 4:42 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - August 29, 2013 at 11:15 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Captain Colostomy - August 30, 2013 at 1:34 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 27, 2013 at 7:35 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 27, 2013 at 9:12 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 25, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 27, 2013 at 7:13 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - August 31, 2013 at 6:51 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 31, 2013 at 7:18 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 6, 2013 at 3:34 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 9, 2013 at 2:10 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 9, 2013 at 3:11 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 9, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2013 at 5:29 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - August 28, 2013 at 8:29 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 28, 2013 at 8:44 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 28, 2013 at 7:39 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 28, 2013 at 8:39 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 29, 2013 at 2:18 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2013 at 9:36 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 30, 2013 at 1:36 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - August 30, 2013 at 9:44 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Ryantology - August 30, 2013 at 10:05 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Esquilax - August 30, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 30, 2013 at 11:32 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Captain Colostomy - August 28, 2013 at 11:24 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - August 30, 2013 at 6:18 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 30, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 31, 2013 at 12:43 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - August 31, 2013 at 4:18 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - August 31, 2013 at 6:54 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - August 31, 2013 at 7:06 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 1, 2013 at 12:00 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 1, 2013 at 2:15 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 1, 2013 at 3:27 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 1, 2013 at 6:25 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 1, 2013 at 11:32 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 1, 2013 at 5:22 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 2, 2013 at 5:41 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 2, 2013 at 6:16 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 2, 2013 at 7:40 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 2, 2013 at 8:28 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 2, 2013 at 9:23 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 2, 2013 at 8:59 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 2, 2013 at 11:33 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 3, 2013 at 12:41 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 3, 2013 at 1:43 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 3, 2013 at 7:14 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 3, 2013 at 11:30 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 3, 2013 at 5:16 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 3, 2013 at 5:34 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 3, 2013 at 9:06 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 3, 2013 at 7:35 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - August 31, 2013 at 11:03 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by StuW - August 31, 2013 at 8:41 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 31, 2013 at 1:13 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 1, 2013 at 12:18 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 1, 2013 at 12:49 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Chas - September 2, 2013 at 10:28 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Walking Void - September 1, 2013 at 9:39 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 1, 2013 at 9:50 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Walking Void - September 1, 2013 at 10:15 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 1, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 2, 2013 at 10:49 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 2, 2013 at 11:35 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 2, 2013 at 10:33 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 3, 2013 at 8:52 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 4, 2013 at 12:39 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 4, 2013 at 2:55 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 4, 2013 at 3:02 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 4, 2013 at 8:01 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 4, 2013 at 8:33 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 4, 2013 at 10:31 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 4, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 4, 2013 at 7:57 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 4, 2013 at 9:03 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 5, 2013 at 12:10 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 5, 2013 at 12:49 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 5, 2013 at 1:01 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 5, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 5, 2013 at 1:29 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 5, 2013 at 1:36 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 5, 2013 at 3:39 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 5, 2013 at 8:11 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 5, 2013 at 11:15 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 5, 2013 at 6:16 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 5, 2013 at 9:12 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 5, 2013 at 7:15 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 6, 2013 at 2:41 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 6, 2013 at 5:36 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 6, 2013 at 8:52 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 6, 2013 at 10:45 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - September 6, 2013 at 11:22 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 6, 2013 at 7:38 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Cato - September 5, 2013 at 11:25 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by downbeatplumb - September 6, 2013 at 1:46 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by bennyboy - September 6, 2013 at 6:40 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Fidel_Castronaut - September 7, 2013 at 2:25 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 9, 2013 at 3:52 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 9, 2013 at 4:06 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Fidel_Castronaut - September 17, 2013 at 4:26 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 25, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 26, 2013 at 1:58 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 26, 2013 at 1:01 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Neo-Scholastic - September 7, 2013 at 9:27 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by downbeatplumb - September 15, 2013 at 8:01 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - September 17, 2013 at 1:09 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 17, 2013 at 2:02 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 17, 2013 at 5:48 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - September 26, 2013 at 3:10 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by gilbertc06 - September 21, 2013 at 5:08 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - October 6, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Harris - October 6, 2013 at 2:28 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by genkaus - October 6, 2013 at 4:32 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - October 6, 2013 at 4:57 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Zazzy - October 7, 2013 at 9:13 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by paulpablo - October 7, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by KichigaiNeko - October 6, 2013 at 4:39 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by max-greece - October 6, 2013 at 4:43 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by Esquilax - October 6, 2013 at 5:57 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by KichigaiNeko - October 6, 2013 at 4:44 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by max-greece - October 6, 2013 at 6:07 am
RE: Pleasure and Joy - by gilbertc06 - October 6, 2013 at 10:48 pm

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