Pleasure and Joy

[bennyboy]

Fine. I will refine my statement. The problem is that your criteria don't prove that something is actually experiencing. They only outline the particular behaviors which you are willing to assume indicate actual experience.

Except I'm not "willing to assume" anything - my knowledge here is based on the criteria you set out.

I know that I experience (a position held by you as well, with regards to yourself).
I know that some of my specific behavior is necessarily the result of my experience.
Therefore, I know that such behavior indicates actual experience.

No assumption necessary.

Awwww. . . you missed my awesome lecture on B.F. Skinner by posting while I was typing! But here's the criteria as I actually set them out.

-I know that I experience.
-I know that based on my experience, I do certain behaviors.
-I know that I have seen other people do similar behaviors.
-I therefore find it pragmatic to assume that those people experience as I do, though there's no way for me to know for sure.

-edit-
We are editing past each other. Hopefully this will get us caught up:

Yeah, I don't think so. Skinner's basic premise - of using reward/punishment model - would work only if the entity is capable of subjective experience. I can kick my car when it sputters or I can take it to a car wash when it works fine - neither will affect its future 'behavior'.

No, it's purely a mathematical process; if you think of it as an evolutionary model of behavior, it makes sense. If you're interested, I can outline how it works, or even make a simple program to show how it works.