RE: Pleasure and Joy
September 9, 2013 at 2:10 pm
(This post was last modified: September 9, 2013 at 2:40 pm by Harris.)
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: Nope - sorry. Both on scientific and philosophical grounds, it has not yet been established that the Universe had a cause.
Quote:It’s only an opinion that you have and there is no problem to have an opinion.
[quote='genkaus' pid='503358' dateline='1378532986']
[quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']
Do you have any scientific proof in support of your statement “UNIVERSE IS NOT AN AGENT” or is it only your opinion?
Ofcourse I do.
Agency is a quality of consciousness.
Consciousness can exist only in specific forms of complex systems like human brain.
Universe - as a whole - is not such a system.
Therefore, universe is not an agent.
About which Consciousness are you talking, Brain Functioning or subjective experiences?
Are you sure that your consciousness had encompassed whole of the universe?
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: [quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']Without knowing Quran, you can’t distinguish between right and wrong.
And yet, I do it all the time.
Quote:It is known as vulgarism.
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: [quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']None of Atheist scholars (including staunchest of all Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Krauss, etc.) is using any of those false allegations to prove Quran to be wrong in their debates (especially with the Muslim Scholars) neither have they mentioned any of those allegations in their writings.
They don't have to. There are so many other problems with it.
Quote:Trust me; these people won’t let go slightest chance in their argument to prove their selves correct and the opponent wrong.
[quote='genkaus' pid='503358' dateline='1378532986']
[quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']All non-Muslim scholars discern exactly why those false accusations are floating over the net. The purpose of these web sites is only to spread misconceptions about Quran. It is something similar to the spreading of wrong meaning of Jihaad (to strive) by replacing it with the meaning (Holy War against non-Muslims). Word for war in Arabic is Qitaal.
The only way those are 'misconceptions' is if they are incorrect translations - in which case it should be easy for you to disprove them using the correct ones. So, go ahead - do that - and then come back with your indignant posturing.
I already told you those are based on quotations out of context, misquotes, and on the implications of inappropriate synonyms to the words. The authors had also taken advantage on general people’s lack of knowledge, while framing those allegations.
(September 6, 2013 at 3:34 pm)Harris Wrote: You are wrong in stating, “As to its cause - we do not even know if there can be a cause”. We have firm evidences on philosophical and scientific grounds that Universe has a Cause. What was that cause? It’s a different area of discourse.
Nope - sorry. Both on scientific and philosophical grounds, it has not yet been established that the Universe had a cause.[/quote]
It’s only an opinion that you have and there is no problem to have an opinion.
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: [quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']Do you have any scientific proof in support of your statement “UNIVERSE IS NOT AN AGENT” or is it only your opinion?
Ofcourse I do.
Agency is a quality of consciousness.[/quote]
About which Consciousness are you talking, Brain Functioning or subjective experiences?
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: Consciousness can exist only in specific forms of complex systems like human brain.
Universe - as a whole - is not such a system.
Therefore, universe is not an agent.
Are you sure that your consciousness had encompassed whole of the universe?
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: [quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']Without knowing Quran, you can’t distinguish between right and wrong.
And yet, I do it all the time.[/quote]
It is known as vulgarism.
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: [quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']None of Atheist scholars (including staunchest of all Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Krauss, etc.) is using any of those false allegations to prove Quran to be wrong in their debates (especially with the Muslim Scholars) neither have they mentioned any of those allegations in their writings.
They don't have to. There are so many other problems with it. [/quote]
Trust me; these people won’t let go slightest chance in their argument to prove their selves correct and the opponent wrong.
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: [quote='Harris' pid='503185' dateline='1378496094']All non-Muslim scholars discern exactly why those false accusations are floating over the net. The purpose of these web sites is only to spread misconceptions about Quran. It is something similar to the spreading of wrong meaning of Jihaad (to strive) by replacing it with the meaning (Holy War against non-Muslims). Word for war in Arabic is Qitaal.
The only way those are 'misconceptions' is if they are incorrect translations - in which case it should be easy for you to disprove them using the correct ones. So, go ahead - do that - and then come back with your indignant posturing.[/quote]
I already told you those are based on quotations out of context, misquotes, and on the implications of inappropriate synonyms to the words. The authors had also taken advantage on general people’s lack of knowledge, while framing those allegations.
(September 9, 2013 at 2:10 pm)Harris Wrote: [quote='genkaus' pid='503358' dateline='1378532986']
Nope - sorry. Both on scientific and philosophical grounds, it has not yet been established that the Universe had a cause.
Ofcourse I do.
Agency is a quality of consciousness.
Consciousness can exist only in specific forms of complex systems like human brain.
Universe - as a whole - is not such a system.
Therefore, universe is not an agent.
About which Consciousness are you talking, Brain Functioning or subjective experiences?
Are you sure that your consciousness had encompassed whole of the universe?
(September 7, 2013 at 1:49 am)genkaus Wrote: And yet, I do it all the time.
They don't have to. There are so many other problems with it.
The only way those are 'misconceptions' is if they are incorrect translations - in which case it should be easy for you to disprove them using the correct ones. So, go ahead - do that - and then come back with your indignant posturing.
I already told you those are based on quotations out of context, misquotes, and on the implications of inappropriate synonyms to the words. The authors had also taken advantage on general people’s lack of knowledge, while framing those allegations.
(September 7, 2013 at 1:56 am)paulpablo Wrote:Quote:Can you name couple of eminent biologists who agreed that genetic coding of an ape DNA could evolve into human DNA by means of evolution?
No biologist agrees or suggested in the first place that humans evolved from apes to humans, it was an ape like creature we evolved from and we are still great apes according to biologists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae
a. Lucy
b. Homo sapiens
c. Neanderthal man
d. Cro-Magnon man
There are no links between these species.
