Pleasure and Joy

[Harris]

Are you trying to say, you would not mind if someone say your mother is a bitch because it is an untrue comparison!!!???

Yes. Do you know how many times I've been called a son of a bitch.

Look Genkaus! My intentions are only to have a healthy debate in an educated manner. You have transformed this discourse into a toilet fight. Perhaps you are doing it determinately or maybe its your style but in consequence I found myself in the trap of a cheap street fight. In reply to my disciplined responses, you are consistently using a language of street hooligans.

I was astounded by the fact that Atheist enjoys killings of millions of Muslims who are after all human beings. I won’t be surprised if you say Hitler and Stalin are your much-loved stars.

But in doing so you are overlooking a simple point that you are representing Atheism. You are giving signs of rudeness, brutal, and insane character to a non-atheist like me who is not attacking your person and your faith. If Atheism is all about brutality, cruelty, harshness, and ruthlessness then you are doing an excellent job. If atheism is not about harshness then for peaceful atheists you and people like you are a bad news. Perhaps, you are proud to be violent but this way you are damaging image of your own atheism.

You are doing nothing but saying NO to anything and everything what I am saying. Every denial is the negation of an affirmative claim, and that means that an affirmation has been present to the mind.

Human actions are characteristically explained in terms of the beliefs (and the desires) of their agents. But sceptics have no beliefs. Hence sceptics cannot act. Hence, sceptics cannot live - the only good sceptic is a dead sceptic.
Harris

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Correct! I mentioned many times Quran is not a book of science. It gives facts of nature (unknown to human) in hints and clues which when human acquired knowledge reach to a certain level then only people start realizing what that clue meant. This is how Quran maintain its claim to be a Divine revelation.

So effectively it operates a retrospective pat on the back for believers utilising a confirmation bias to enforce what they already wanted to believe, right?

Scientific clues in Quran are for those non-believers who are in search of truth and trying to get to it by means of their contemplations on nature and natural processes.

People in the life of Prophet Mohammad were illiterate. First, they were far from cultural and educational environment second no one knows anything about science. Prophet Mohammad was one of those illiterate people. However, they believed in Quran not because they had all the scientific knowledge to understand scientific clues in Quran. They were believers because they have understood the nature of their own beings through the teachings of Quran.

The prime mode of this prudential knowledge is self-awareness, and every being existing in itself which is capable of self-awareness is a pure and simple light, as evinced by the pellucid clarity with which it is manifest to itself. In fact, being a pure and simple light is precisely the same as having self-awareness, and this is true of all self-aware entities up to and including God, the Light of Lights, the intensity of whose illumination and self-awareness encompasses everything else. The main constituent of reality is the hierarchies of such pure lights, differing solely in the intensity of their Illumination, and thus of self-awareness

Nature is self-evident for anyone who is sentient and keen about it. Quran attracts attention towards the common sense nature that can easily be perceived by the common sense faculties of man. Quran helps an endeavouring person and reveals common truths to the eye of his consciousness.

Quran invites people to ponder over the nature because understanding of nature is the right path to the understanding of God.

It is He Who has created for you (the faculties of) hearing, sight, feeling and understanding: little thanks it is ye give!
Al Mu'minuun (23)
-Verse 78-

The exquisiteness of Quran is in its text. The text is so eloquent that it does not demand any scholarly background from a person to understand this message, yet scholars cannot comprehend scopes of its meanings in totality.

“He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.”
Ali Imran (3)
-Verse 6-

Not father, mother, any scientist nor doctor or all of them together are responsible in the making of human body inside the mother’s womb. The only effort in the whole process is the sexual intercourse and Voilà.

We cannot and can never control the universe according to our desires. Trillions of stars in billions of galaxies are in perfect order. Every object has its own path and no star comes in the way of other star. Is not that a wonder?

In terms of general human behaviour, only a sceptic requires exhausting details on evidences and proofs because he is dependent over his personal standards of pain and pleasure and judge things based on that. How deeply someone is dependent over his own desires that stubborn character he would have. Adamant man denies the facts deliberately by playing a role of an antagonist to disprove any evidence, which may become hindrance in his personal likings and this way he defends his personal preferences.

“If the Truth had been in accord with their desires, truly the heavens and the earth, and all beings therein would have been in confusion and corruption! Nay, We have sent them their admonition, but they turn away from their admonition.”
Al Mu'minuun (23)
-Verse 71-

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I am still waiting for a Muslim scholar to use the Koran to predict a currently unknown scientific discovery.

Hi ChadWooters,
I was in fact waiting to see something from you. I have gone through some of your responses in other threads and I am not shy in stating that some of your responses are inspiring. I don’t claim I am a scholar in philosophy and theology but I am not a bad student either. No matter we are scholars or laymen but we all are vulnerable to mistakes. With that, I hope I have made my point clear.

No person in the world can predict currently unknown scientific discovery from Quran. Quran is the book of commandments only. It is not intended to reveal scientific facts to the people. Scientific facts are there only to support faith of believers and to draw prudent attention of non-believers over its message. The nature of these scientific clues is such that they become vibrant only with the advancements in the acquired knowledge. These clues support divine character of Quran by exposing the facts which science is discovering now in fact they were already been present in Quran long before these discoveries.

“He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book (Quran): In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.”
Ali Imran (3)
-Verse 7-

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You were wrong about biologists classifying homo sapiens as great apes so you just changed the topic.

I haven’t change the topic. I am simply saying there are no links between the fossils of four different humanlike species.

You still haven't admitted that you're basically guessing about the clues the quran is giving you about fingerprints and passing on the information as fact, a fact that you know god is telling you about finger prints.

I am outright against any person in today’s world who proclaims he has communication links with God. I count it as a blasphemy and act of obvious dishonesty. So, no, God is not telling me anything by means of inspirations or in a way like person-to-person communication.

However, Quran is the word of God I believe and it provides a link with God. In this sense yes, God is not only talking with me through Quran but He also talks with anyone who ponder over the verses of Quran prudently.

Quran has used the word “fingertips” explicitly. I am not guessing on the subject of fingerprints. It is in fact fingertips, which contain fingerprints. It’s a simple logic which was not clear before the discover of fingerprints that all fingertips are unique. This verse is showing that it’s not a difficult task for Allah to recreate all human beings and fashions them in their exact designs, no matter how different they are and how unique their fingertips would be.

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I am also a believer in bible

unfortunately, bible has been corrupted heavily and I cannot rely on it

So you don't believe in it.

Unfortunately, yes, I don’t believe in the present day bible to be the word of God. However, I believe in original Psalm, Torah, and Gospel to be the true words of God just like Quran. Quran is only the continuation of previous scriptures. The only difference is people have corrupted previous scriptures whereas Quran is untouched and not yet corrupted. I know people out of jealousy and hatred trying to distort Quran but they are getting only failures after failures.

I’ll give you an example which would clarify my position why I can’t take present day bible to be the word of God.

I’ll quote one incident which is mentioned in four different gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke, John) and all four gospels illustrate this same incident in different ways.

(Matt 28:2 - 3 [KJV]) (ONE ANGEL / SAT UPON IT)
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and SAT UPON IT. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

(Mark 16:5 [KJV]) (ONE YOUNG MAN / SITTING ON THE RIGHT SIDE)
And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man SITTING ON THE RIGHT SIDE, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

(Luke 24:4 [KJV]) (TWO MEN / TWO MEN STOOD BY THEM)
And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, TWO MEN STOOD BY THEM in shining garments:

(John 20:12 [KJV]) (TWO ANGELS / SITTING, THE ONE AT THE HEAD, AND THE OTHER AT THE FEET)

And seeth two angels in white SITTING, THE ONE AT THE HEAD, AND THE OTHER AT THE FEET, where the body of Jesus had lain.

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This shows that for God it is not challenging to recreate all human beings with all those unique fingerprints no matter those fingertips might be trillions in number.

The verse doesn't say unique finger prints you just added those words in there.
Human brains are all unique, finger tips aren't the only unique parts of our bodies, they are just the easiest for us humans to see the uniqueness. I imagine recreating human brains is more difficult than fingertips.
According to google I don't know if it's true Everyone also has a unique tongue print.

According to Quran, all human beings are unique. No one is a perfect copy of someone. Structure of brain is unique in each person similarly signatures in human eyes are also unique but these exclusivities cannot be detected without special aids whereas anyone can check difference in fingerprints by the help of his conventional sense of vision. Quran uses common sense examples that can be perceived by anyone with his common physical senses. The purpose of giving these examples is not to give scientific education rather a moral education and guidelines on how one should live his life. The scientific clues are only to confirm it’s divine nature.

Just admit you're guessing that this is a miracle, you don't know for a fact god is telling you about unique fingerprints.
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I am not guessing. I am giving you logical reasons. I already mentioned that I don’t have any type of communication with God. I communicate with God only through the text of Quran.

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So you have to guess what these clues are? And you have to guess that it is a divine book.

No one has to guess what these clues are. They turn out to be apparent in conjunction with the growth of our acquired knowledge. We should not ignore the clues, which are in perfect match with the established scientific facts, whereas we should not worry about clues, which are meant for the future generations.