Pleasure and Joy

[Harris]

So why weren't medieval muslims using finger prints to track down criminals? Could it be that the scientific "knowledge" in the koran only becomes revealed once someone else actually discovers it.
Seems muslims were the worst people to "reveal" this information too coz they did shit all with it.

But as I've said elsewhere the holy texts are written in such ambiguous language you can get it to mean almost anything.

"So why weren't medieval muslims using finger prints to track down criminals?"

I guess there were no criminals there


“Could it be that the scientific "knowledge" in the koran only becomes revealed …”

Quran is not revealing anything. Knowledge is already there.

“… Once someone else actually discovers it”

Correct! When our acquired knowledge reaches to a higher level it is only then more facts becoming visible in the verses of Quran. That is how Quran is maintaining its divine characteristics.

Quran is not intended to give education of science, history, literature, geography etc. Although there are hints on all these subjects in Quran, the main topic however is human morals and how should one live his life.

Quran is not imposing its commandments over people. It totally let people to decide according to their own free wills to accept this message or not. The purpose of Quran is to give warnings to non-believers. It is a warning especially to those who knowingly oppose the truth only for the sake of personal pleasures and joys. On the other hand, Quran provides good tidings for believers and for the people who accept the truth and live their lives within the limits of certain boundaries for the welfare of their society and for the good of their close ones.

"Seems muslims were the worst people to "reveal" this information too coz they did shit all with it."

You are wrong. Muslims did not reveal this information. This hint was in Quran but nobody had any idea about it. Quran is only indicating that God who has created everything first time is able to recreate everyone for the second time in their original forms with precision.

And among His Signs in this: thou seest the earth barren and desolate; but when We send down rain to it, it is stirred to life and yields increase. Truly, He Who gives life to the (dead) earth can surely give life to (men) who are dead. For He has power over all things.
Fush Shilat (41)
-Verse 39-

"But as I've said elsewhere the holy texts are written in such ambiguous language you can get it to mean almost anything."

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder?
Al Anbiyaa' (21)
-Verse 30-

What is ambiguous in above verse?

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Show me the information you have about frances gold, if that is how you spell his name, then we can talk about why he has been given credit for anything.

Hi Paul,
Thank you for correcting my mistake. It’s not Frances Gold but Sir Francis Galton (1822) so in short instead of writing Galt I was writing Gold.

“The method of identifying criminals by their fingerprints had been introduced in the 1860s by Sir William James Herschel in India, and their potential use in forensic work was first proposed by Dr Henry Faulds in 1880, but Galton was the first to place the study on a scientific footing, which assisted its acceptance by the courts (Bulmer 2003, p. 35). Galton pointed out that there were specific types of fingerprint patterns. He described and classified them into eight broad categories. 1: plain arch, 2: tented arch, 3: simple loop, 4: central pocket loop, 5: double loop, 6: lateral pocket loop, 7: plain whorl, and 8: accidental.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Francis_Galton

“The system of fingerprints in universal use today derived from this work.

Galton's application of exact quantitative methods gave results which, processed mathematically, developed a numerical factor he called correlation and defined thus: "Two variable organs are said to be co-related when the variation of the one is accompanied on the average by more or less variation of the other, and in the same direction. Co-relation must be the consequence of the variations of the two organs being partly due to common causes. If wholly due … the co-relation would be perfect." Co-relation specified the degree of relationship between any pair of individuals or any two attributes.”

“Having been thus inspired to study fingerprints for ten years, Galton published a detailed statistical model of fingerprint analysis and identification and encouraged its use in forensic science in his book Finger Prints. He had calculated that the chance of a "false positive" (two different individuals having the same fingerprints) was about 1 in 64 billion.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprint

So as you see that Forensic Science is not old and before the discovery made by Frances Galt people did not know that two different individuals don’t have identical fingerprints.

Maybe ancient people were using fingerprint only for aristocratic commitments and/or for the endorsement of a noble decree.

I know fingertips have fingerprints so what?

You believe gods final message to you was via the quran, therefore if he gives you a piece of information in the quran which is only a hint, then all you can do is guess about what the hint is telling you.

I don’t need to guess. I am not hunting for what is behind the hint. No one can know the meanings of these hints until the acquired knowledge won’t reach to a certain level where these meanings become clear without any investigations and of guesswork.

It is actually impossible for you to not be guessing what god is hinting to you since he hasn't come down and told you if you are correct or not has he?

It seems you are debating quite a lot with Christians. Jesus is god in flesh or Jesus coming in the visions of true Christians and other such claims in Islam are counted as blasphemy. There is no free lunch in Islam. Every person would get his/her results according to what he/she had earned in this life. It can be explained simply as; we have to work in order to earn our food. How good we work that good food we’ll eat. It’s not like only believing in Jesus gives a free salvation.

So, no, God has not come to me and has not told me anything. And, I am not guessing anything.

You are guessing but just won't admit it.

You are trying to prove that I am guessing about a universal truth which is known to everyone. It is something as if I am saying that Quran states apple is red. In addition to that, I say it means apple is ready for eating but you are arguing Quran does not mention that apple is ready for eating. Because Quran does not mention red apple is ready for eating for that reason you are accusing me for building deductive reasoning.

I simply know fingertips have fingerprints, which are not identical among people. Until, Frances Galt had made his discovery this fact was hidden from people.

The quran doesn't mention pain receptors, the quran just says people will get their skins roasted then have them replaced by more skins so they get roasted again.

People knew if they were going to get their skins roasted, then replaced by another skin and roasted again it would cause them a lot of pain.

After reading your comment, I made a small research. Unfortunately, I did not find any clue from the history that people actually knew that it is in fact skin, which causes all the pain.

Before the age of this scientific discovery, it was commonly believed that the whole human body could feel pain. It was not until the role of nerve endings in the skin were discovered, that people learned skin is associated with sensitivity because it contains the majority of nerve endings.

There are two groups of feelings:

1) Epictritic which senses light things, like a light touch or a slight change in temperature; and
2) Protopathic which feels pain and considerable change in temperature.

These receptors can be categorized into four kinds:

1) Exteroceptors which are concerned with the faculty of sense and touch and which contain meissners and merkels corpuscles,
2) Krause End Bulbes which are concerned with coldness,
3) Ruffini Cylinders which are concerned with heat and
4) Nerve Endings that can transmit any feeling of physical pain.

The skin is considered the part of the body that is rich with such nerve endings that transmit heat and pain.

Anatomists have proved that people whose skin has been completely burnt cannot feel pain because their nerve endings are damaged.

The verse says that the skin is the part of the body that will receive the punishment, i.e. there is a connection between the skin and the sensation of pain. The verse also tells us that when the skin is burnt (i.e. in the Fire), man can no longer feel the pain of the punishment and so his burnt skin is replaced with new fresh skin where the nerve endings are functioning properly and can transmit the feeling of pain.

Prior to the invention of microscopes and the progress made in the field of anatomy, no human being could have any knowledge about this scientific fact mentioned in Qur'an fourteen centuries ago.

What do you mean no links between the 4 humans?

Scientists don’t have any clues on how:

1. Lucy evolved in Homo sapiens
2. Homo sapiens evolved in Neanderthal man
3. Neanderthal man evolved in Cro-Magnon man and
4. Cro-Magnon man evolved into present day humans.

Scientists have also found fossils of some other human like species but there are no historical links among all these fossils and so no one can derive any relation between contemporary humans and these fossils due to these missing links. Scientist can’t even develop relations among these fossils as well.

We are classified as apes.

other apes who are humans are unlikely to evolve into humans because it is correct that 2 different species evolving into exactly the same species independantly is very very unlikely to happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape#Greater_and_lesser

I don’t have any problem if you say humans are classified as apes for the classification purpose only.

Like Darwin himself said to his friend Thomas Thomson in a letter (1861):

“I don’t believe in the word natural selection (theory of evolution) because I don’t have any proof. I only believe in it because it helps me in classification of Embryology, in morphology, in rudimentary organs”.

So if we say lion is classified as cat or human is classified as ape then there is no harm in that.

Trouble starts when someone says:

No, no, lion in fact evolved from cat, which is where scientific facts go in opposite directions.

How much literature I have read on the topic of evolution, nowhere I found anything based on molecular biology, which confirms that human genes evolved from ape genes.

Maximum, based on some similarities between human and ape genes, people are speculating that human genes evolved from ape genes. This is again scientifically no more than a speculation as according to the molecular biology such probability is almost zero.