Free Will, Free Won't?

[Zone]

So you're challenging whether our thought processes are somehow an exception to the freedom we are said not to have. Are we free to recognize the better argument? Or are we constrained to find convincing that which we are already predisposed to believe. (You don't have to spend too much time on these forums to recognize the latter to be true.)

You have the problem of something that has no freewill coming to an understanding of freewill without the use of freewill which doesn't quite follow.

I'm sorry for not making myself clear enough. I am not saying that I don't have an opinion. I'm saying that the opinion I have is determined by past events and experiences.

It's the same difference and what I meant. But with freewill you will be able to react to and shape the events in your life rather than be determined by them. You can still be influenced by them of course it depends what you chose to do with the influence.

I have no control over the experiences, nor my perception of them.

You do but you seem to be doing something a bit funny in claiming to have no free volition of your own.

My perception of any given event is the product of previous experiences equally beyond my control.

You control events to a limited degree and your reaction to the events to a greater degree. It may take some work to become fully self mastered though.

My opinion at this very moment is the product of all of those variables, hence, it is determined by them.

Influenced not determined.

You seem to think that I am arguing for fatalism, which I am not.

No I'm arguing against what you're saying here. What are you basing this assertion upon? Why you want to even make the assertion is beyond me.

I am saying that, at every moment, we all act in a manner that is consistent with who we are, and could not act any differently.

We could if we wanted to?

The moment we act, that deciscion was determined by factors beyond your control.

Influenced by factors beyond your control not determined. Where are you getting all this from?

The origin of the thoughts you use to process the information that informs each deciscion are equally mysterious as they appear into consciousness.

Just say you're the origin you exist don't you?

While I agree that we can change, I believe that my conscious experience of that change is more accurately a witness to it, and not the agent in control of it.

Could you choose to believe otherwise? If you do that proves my point, unless you're saying I would be controlling your mind by making a suggestion.

The notion of Free-Will comes from how we identify ourselves with a specific channel of information. Upon closer inspection, we can see that we are no more in control over that flow of information, than we are over the 100 trillion bacteria that carry out necessary functions within our bodies, and are just as much a part of me as my subconscious. If I cannot control the agenda of my spleen, I cannot be held accountable for when it malfunctions. It's creepy to think about, but, the same argument can be made for our subconscious mind, and it is our subconscious that feeds the conscious.

Well there is a lot going on that influences you yes. How you go from that to complete determinism you're not saying.

Are you free to choose that which does not occur to you to choose?

You can choose your reaction to it.

Are you free to think that which does not occur to you in thought?

It depends if you want to or not?

Are you free to choose that which you are unaware of as an option?

You have freewill within the limits the sphere of what you know and are but that doesn't mean you're entirely determined and without control.

Where is the freedom? Again, all of this is contingent upon what is commonly understood about the notion of free-will. That our conscious-self, is the source of our thoughts and decisions. Don't use a psychological fact to satisfy a philosophical problem.

You're the source of everything you think and do under the influence of numerous factors. You haven't been determined by anything, restricted in certain ways perhaps. You can't jump out of a window and decide you'll like to use your freewill to fly. You can use your freewill to jump out of the window and gravity takes care of the rest for you.