Free Will, Free Won't?

[The Reality Salesman01]

Do people act differently when they're drunk? If so why do you think that is what has changed?

This is actually a statement in support of what I’m saying. Yes they act differently, because a new influence is affecting the neurophysiological processes that control their conditioned type of behavior. A mind conditioned to function in a specific way, is being altered, and performs in a different way that is inconsistent with the way it is conditioned. Every life experience you have, every social interaction you have, your upbringing, these are ALL things that determine your actions and decisions in the future but over time. Directly impairing the source of thought is a more direct and obvious way of effecting the outcome of your decisions, but ultimately, it’s no more impactful than ALL the other things that lead up to it. And just because you and I are both drunk, it doesn’t mean we can be expected to behave the same way either. That’s because the alcohol is combined with the other factors and is not the sole underlying explanation.

I exist in the universe/realty I exist within and can exist nowhere else same goes for you.

I think you missed the point here again. What I said was:
When you look back at something you did, and think that-You could have done differently –Is no different than saying-You could have existed in a different universe. Saying that you could have done differently if you wanted to, ignores the obvious flaw in such a speculation, the “If you wanted to” part. The fact is, you “wanted” to do exactly what you did, and would not have nor could you have, done any differently than EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID! Saying otherwise is nothing more than retrospective conjecture that offers no clarity to the notion of Free Will.

The control we have over our physical body is limited. You can choose a healthy lifestyle to minimize your risk of cancer, that's what you can do with it. If you're a smoker for instance you ought to use your freewill to quit, difficult though it is.

You’re missing the point here.

There are parts of your body that perform functions without your consciousness giving them instructions, yes?

The parts that perform those functions are equally a part of you as anything else is, are they not?


If the functions in your body that fight cancer shut-down, and you contract it, would it be fair for me to ridicule you for being careless?

I’m not saying that these functions are example of why free-will is false. I’m saying that your subconscious mind operates without you consciously controlling it either. The effects it has on your consciousness are no more in your control than those which fight cancer. Why do you insist on taking credit for your subsconscious activity? You have to give a reason for this, otherwise your position on Free Will is debunked.

Your subconscious mind feeds your conscious sense of self the information that you identify with as being YOUR thoughts.

But YOU, in the sense that you identify with being YOU, is getting information from an involuntary source, and then taking credit for it as it presents itself into consciousness.

You can take no more credit for the thoughts that appear in consciousness than you can for the tumor that forms on your brain. Is this not making sense to you?

They are part of your immune system which is part of you? You don't actively control everything in your body…

That is my entire point. So, you can’t consciously take credit for the functions they are performing, right? Even though they are YOU in every sense. You aren’t the agent in control of them, nor is your consciousness the source of their existence, so them working or not working, is not something that YOU can take credit for, given what you associate as being YOU, same goes for your thoughts!

I said there are unconscious physical automatic process that make suggestions. You act upon them.

Precisely! Those “suggestions” are determined by your subconscious, which we’ve established, is something you are not in control of. The suggestion you “choose” is determined by your unique mind and the way it was formed. The decision made at that point, is the only one YOU could ever make. The retrospective observation that other things existed to choose from, does not, and could not change the choice you made.

The part of me that is beyond conscious control but seeing as I am the conscious part ultimately it's really just something that makes recommendations. You decide what to do with the information fed in.

I think you may want to do a little more research, what you’ve just said is a baseless assertion, and it’s demonstrably false. But ultimately, it’s irrelevant to my argument. Those “suggestions” are what creates the illusion of an option. Your consciousness is at the mercy of those suggestions. Every single thought you have, the key strokes that you make, ALL of them just occur to you from a deeper state of awareness. It’s illusory to pretend that your consciousness is the creator and author of them.

If you pay attention, and are really honest with yourself, it’s quite obvious.

(If you watch the video, many of your complaints and “objections” are addressed in it)

Close your eyes, and try to think of as many movie names as you can in 2 minutes.

There will be a hiatus of nothingness, and then, from seemingly nowhere, names of movies will begin to appear in consciousness.

Once the 2 minutes is up, do a Google search for the top 20 highest grossing movies.

You will probably be familiar with most, if not all of them by name. But, most of them, perhaps none of them would have occurred to you during your experiment. You know them, they are in your brain, but, they just won’t occur to you.

You are clearly not free to choose that which doesn’t occur to you to choose.

You are clearly not what chooses that which occurs to you, and you are clearly not privy to ALL the possible information stored in your mind.

So, I’m curious, on what grounds do you pretend to take credit for the things that your subconscious offers?

You are making baseless assertions that “you choose from suggestions”, but you haven’t established these terms as anything more that incoherent conjecture.