(October 9, 2013 at 7:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:Quote:What am I suppose to do? Act like, "America! Fuck Yeah!!"?? Perhaps, if we didn't bomb or invade every country we don't like... Or shutdown our government because we legally passed a form of universal healthcare... Or could actually make good on the promise of the American Dream, instead of offering stagnation, regression, and social immobility as an alternative... How am I suppose to be loyal to and proud of an America that I find deeply disappointing and sinister?Well, what are you supposed to do? True, true, in a country where loyalty is bought and sold with money, the lack of it appeals to your materialistic and pragmatic selves, so you actually feel inclined to yearn for places that actually appeal to your way of thinking.
A flag is merely a symbol. In the US's case, what does it symbolize? Freedom? Prosperity? Equality? Well, we're doing a shitty job on all of those fronts. I can only vote once each election, other than that, I'm SOL and just suppose to put up with it. Which I do, I may complain, but I put up with it, because there is no viable alternative. And it's not just me, it's millions of other Americans, too. It's not just one thing, it's all the things. It is cumulative. By luck of the draw I was born here, does that make me somehow special? Nope. Is America special? Nope, unless you count our ability to take a good thing and drive it into a fucking wall.
To the Canadians: Sorry. But I'd do it again. Does that make me not sorry? It's just my feelings of shame and embarrassment about what my country does, far outweighs my feeling sorry for the damage it does Canada's reputation to have Americans pretend to be Canadians when we travel overseas.
Is there no shred of idealistic patriotism that actually has a place in your hearts and minds?
Idealistic patriotism, or in my case, nationalism is not about "receiving". We as idealists are drawn to hardships and misery. I too, am not fond of the current government in my country. However does this make me less loyal to my people and my country? No! Do I feel as though I should be ashamed? For my sense of loyalty, and my sense of pride and consciousness is built on an ideal of a nation and a country. I strive towards that goal, no matter in which state the current gov or society might be. You on the other hand, are quick to throw the towel. This is why I asked, if you're so eager to swap flags, why do you keep them?
A flag represents whatever it was created to represent. For example, the Hungarian revolution flag represented a resentment of communism, as the hammer and sickle in the middle of the flag was cut off. Our flag, for example, represents our nation's sovereignity. The red, represents the blood that we have spilled to preserve our sovereignity and freedom as an independent nation. The crescent and moon represent our national spirit as warriors of the faith. If the current government is actually behaving in a way to insult the values that our flag represents, does this mean that I have to hold the flag accountable for it? Does it mean that I have to punish the flag? No! I will raise the flag even higher to show my disapproval, for it represents the values I stand for, even if the government doesn't.
Atatürk embarked upon a program of political, economic, and cultural reforms, seeking to transform the former Ottoman Empire into a modern, secular, and democratic nation-state.
Note the word 'secular'. So much for your 'warriors of the faith'.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
