(October 9, 2013 at 10:11 am)festive1 Wrote:(October 9, 2013 at 7:53 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Well, what are you supposed to do? True, true, in a country where loyalty is bought and sold with money, the lack of it appeals to your materialistic and pragmatic selves, so you actually feel inclined to yearn for places that actually appeal to your way of thinking.
Is there no shred of idealistic patriotism that actually has a place in your hearts and minds?
Idealistic patriotism, or in my case, nationalism is not about "receiving". We as idealists are drawn to hardships and misery. I too, am not fond of the current government in my country. However does this make me less loyal to my people and my country? No! Do I feel as though I should be ashamed? For my sense of loyalty, and my sense of pride and consciousness is built on an ideal of a nation and a country. I strive towards that goal, no matter in which state the current gov or society might be. You on the other hand, are quick to throw the towel. This is why I asked, if you're so eager to swap flags, why do you keep them?
A flag represents whatever it was created to represent. For example, the Hungarian revolution flag represented a resentment of communism, as the hammer and sickle in the middle of the flag was cut off. Our flag, for example, represents our nation's sovereignity. The red, represents the blood that we have spilled to preserve our sovereignity and freedom as an independent nation. The crescent and moon represent our national spirit as warriors of the faith. If the current government is actually behaving in a way to insult the values that our flag represents, does this mean that I have to hold the flag accountable for it? Does it mean that I have to punish the flag? No! I will raise the flag even higher to show my disapproval, for it represents the values I stand for, even if the government doesn't.
As for your flag, you have stated that it represents a variety of things. The thing is, that it represents them. And if you actually believe in things that it represents, it is only logical that you use your flag for it.
The fact that your country now is not the place what your flag represents, more for a reason to venerate and raise your flag, so that it returns to the values it represents. What good would the donning of the Canadian flag do for you? While you're at it, why not proclaim yourself a loyal subject of the crown?
Your way of thinking is faulty, my friend.
The flag means less to me than the ideals it represents. Being that America purports to hold those ideals, yet reality is something quite different, it's very hypocritical. In addition, the people who seem hellbent on holding the country back from becoming everything the symbol stands for, wrap themselves in a blanket of patriotism and, literally, the flag. It's sick how people use patriotism. It's dangerous. I'm not fussed about the flag, they can keep it. I just want the execution of the ideals, which are hard to find here, because they've been bought and sold. They are separate things, ideals and symbols. They are not interchangeable. One has far more actual value and weight than the other. We can make the flag a giant pile of poo on a white background... whatever, I'm good, so long as America actually IS what it pretends to be, which we're not. America is a big, stupid bully, both on the international stage and to it's own citizens. I'm sick of it, and frustrated there's not a whole hell of a lot I can do about it.
It is absolutely disgusting that you spit on a flag that has been the symbol of freedom. Why do you think so many people want to come live here? The way you treat our flag is an abomination and you SHOULD move to whatever country you prefer and get over yourself. People have fought and died for the flag that you spit on. Remember Iwo Jima?