(October 13, 2013 at 4:21 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Seriously? Do I really need to show you why "It was some other person's house. What? That part of the story needs to be explained?" is bad story telling and bad apologetics? Or do you want to retract that response?Yes, you really do need to show that. You first tried to support it by saying that all other minor details are given in the gospels. I've pointed out that that is ridiculous and can give examples if you like. So, you need another reason to support your position.
Quote:Oh, sorry, you missed the part in Matt 2:1 about "when Jesus was born"?No, I haven't missed it in some versions. Others say "after" rather than when. There isn't a greek word there indicating it - either case is a matter of translator's interpretation. We don't know how long after, but we have some parameters. Jesus was less than 2 years old at this time, which we can infer from Herod's order to kill those less than two. Jesus would have been presented at the temple about 6 weeks after birth. According to Luke, they gave the poor person's offering of doves, so from this we can infer that the magi had not come with their gifts at that time.
Quote:Sorry, I guess I just assume that when a story book says "when X happened" that the drama is set when X happened.
Again, the text really doesn't say that, and after is as I've shown a better interpretation.
Quote:And even if you could support that it was long after the birth of Jesus, why were they still in Bethlehem? I thought Joseph was just reporting for the census and Mary's water broke at a bad time. What, were they hanging out and renting a house for no reason?Who knows? As you disparage "ad hoc" explanations I haven't bothered giving any. Putting Matthew and Luke together, we have Jesus born in Bethlehem, the family staying there for six weeks, a return to Nazareth, and then a return to Bethlehem. We don't know what went on in the six weeks in Bethlehem. Maybe Joseph saw opportunity there, or met family there - there's lots of possibilities, but you don't want to hear them.
